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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The significance of this decision is that this is IOWA...midAmerica....this isn't San Francisco, Los Angeles or New York.
    From your own link:

    The case had been working its way through the courts since 2005, when Lambda Legal, a New York-based gay rights organization, filed a lawsuit on behalf of six gay and lesbian couples in Iowa.

    Once again, a special interest group lurking in the shadows, probing and finding ways to circumvent the laws with judges legislating from the bench.

    Senate Majority Leader Mike Gronstal, a Democrat, said state lawmakers were unlikely to consider gay marriage legislation in this legislative session, which is expected to end within weeks.

    Gronstal also said he's "not inclined" to propose a constitutional amendment during next year's session.


    Why not let the people vote? That's the American way.
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It has EVERYTHING to do with equality. America has a history of injustice, but ultimately gets it right....slowly but eventually. If not tomorrow....then the day after that.
    Gay-marriage has nothing to do with equality. It never did.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    So you think that not allowing equals equality?
    Bad grammar, please rephrase your question.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Originally Posted by Jerry
    Gay marriage has nothing to do with equality.

    That is a surrogate argument only, the carrier.
    Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    So you think that not allowing equals equality?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Bad grammar, please rephrase your question.
    Denying gay marriage is, "not allowing" gays to marry.
    Not allowing them to marry is not equal to those that are allowed to marry.
    Since one is being denied equality, being denied gay marriage has everything to do with equality, or lack of.

    So, I asked, do you think that "not allowing", equals "equality". I can't see how in the world any person can think that denying rights or anything to a person or group constitutes equality, or making things equal for people or groups. That help?
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Ooo I gotcha now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Denying gay marriage is, "not allowing" gays to marry.
    Not allowing them to marry is not equal to those that are allowed to marry.
    Since one is being denied equality, being denied gay marriage has everything to do with equality, or lack of.

    So, I asked, do you think that "not allowing", equals "equality". I can't see how in the world any person can think that denying rights or anything to a person or group constitutes equality, or making things equal for people or groups. That help?
    The right to marry a person of the same gender does not exist for it to be denied. It is not evident in Loving, Skinner, or any such case law. It is not present in the "history and traditions of the people". It_does_not_exist.

    Pro-GM people argue that such a right should exist, but that argument is based on the premis that the right does not exist today.

    Iowan heteros have gained a civil right. Heteros would have gained nothing if this were about merely issuing an existing right to an additional group. Something new was created, which means it didn't exist before. Since the right didn't exist, it couldn't have been denied, which means this issue has nothing to do with equality even if you support gay marriage.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-04-09 at 11:17 PM.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Ooo I gotcha now...



    The right to marry a person of the same gender does not exist for it to be denied. It is not evident in Loving, Skinner, or any such case law. It is not present in the "history and traditions of the people". It_does_not_exist.

    Pro-GM people argue that such a right should exist, but that argument is based on the premis that the right does not exist today.

    Iowan heteros have gained a civil right. Heteros would have gained nothing if this were about merely issuing an existing right to an additional group. Something new was created, which means it didn't exist before. Since the right didn't exist, it couldn't have been denied, which means this issue has nothing to do with equality even if you support gay marriage.

    So then what is the problem with allowing it to exist now?
    Allow GM and simply call it "marriage" like heteros get to do...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    So then what is the problem with allowing it to exist now?
    Allow GM and simply call it "marriage" like heteros get to do...
    My problem was with people claiming that this has anything to do with equality.

    For the sake of the argument: Sure, let gays get "married" all they want, but the moment you start pretending that gay marriage has anything to do with righting an injustice you're fool.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-04-09 at 11:25 PM.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    My problem was with people claiming that this has anything to do with equality.
    would you say it pisses you off?

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    From your own link:

    The case had been working its way through the courts since 2005, when Lambda Legal, a New York-based gay rights organization, filed a lawsuit on behalf of six gay and lesbian couples in Iowa.

    Once again, a special interest group lurking in the shadows, probing and finding ways to circumvent the laws with judges legislating from the bench.

    Senate Majority Leader Mike Gronstal, a Democrat, said state lawmakers were unlikely to consider gay marriage legislation in this legislative session, which is expected to end within weeks.

    Gronstal also said he's "not inclined" to propose a constitutional amendment during next year's session.


    Why not let the people vote? That's the American way.
    Can we all vote on your Constitutional Rights?

    That's not the American way. The entire idea behind a Constitution is that there are certain rights/privileges that are so important that they cannot be overcome by the tyranny of the majority.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Gay-marriage has nothing to do with equality. It never did.
    Keep telling yourself that Jerry. The reality is...it has EVERYTHING to do with equality. That's the point of equal protection
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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