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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

  1. #201
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    The significance of this decision is that this is IOWA...midAmerica....this isn't San Francisco, Los Angeles or New York.
    The storm clouds are clearing and this is a battle that will be won in the name of equality which is what America stands for if it stands for anything.

    It reminds me of the lyrics from "Kiss of the Spiderwoman" which are think are very fitting here:

    Then, one April day we heard it
    Thunder rumbling
    One man speaking
    Thousands singing ..
    Someday we'll be free
    I promise you, we'll be free
    If not tomorrow
    Then the day after that
    And the candles in our hands
    Will illuminate this land
    If not tomorrow
    Then the day after that
    And the world that gives us pain
    That fills our lives with fear
    On the day after that
    Will disappear
    And the war we've fought to win
    I promise you, we will win
    If not tomorrow
    Then the day after that
    Or the day after that
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The significance of this decision is that this is IOWA...midAmerica....this isn't San Francisco, Los Angeles or New York.
    The storm clouds are clearing and this is a battle that will be won in the name of equality....
    Gay marriage has nothing to do with equality.

    That is a surrogate argument only, the carrier.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Gay marriage has nothing to do with equality.

    That is a surrogate argument only, the carrier.
    It has EVERYTHING to do with equality. America has a history of injustice, but ultimately gets it right....slowly but eventually. If not tomorrow....then the day after that.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The significance of this decision is that this is IOWA...midAmerica....this isn't San Francisco, Los Angeles or New York.
    The storm clouds are clearing and this is a battle that will be won in the name of equality which is what America stands for if it stands for anything.
    Indeed, a signature victory....

    A victory for those who wish to impose their will without regard to the processes of republican democracy.

    A victory for those who childishly scream "I want" but remain clueless of the larger context of their demands.

    A victory for those who demonize the beliefs and ideals of others.

    A distinctly un-American victory. As you love this country, your tears should be regretful and not rejoicing.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It has EVERYTHING to do with equality. America has a history of injustice, but ultimately gets it right....slowly but eventually. If not tomorrow....then the day after that.
    Well, the Iowa court certainly did not get it right this time. Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for them.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It is an entirely bad thing. Judicial activism is creating law from the bench, not interpreting existing law. Courts are created to interpret the law. Legislatures are created to create the law.

    Legislatures are the expression of the will of the people, not courts.

    There is no social good derived from courts pre-empting legislatures. None whatsoever. Whenever this happens, it is to society's detriment.
    In case I am not following this correctly, explain how the Marbury v. Madison decision was not a case of judicial activism.
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    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    A victory for those who wish to impose their will without regard to the processes of republican democracy.
    From a fan of slavery and interracial marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    A victory for those who childishly scream "I want" but remain clueless of the larger context of their demands.
    Again a fan of interracial marriage and slavery.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    A victory for those who demonize the beliefs and ideals of others.
    Read above.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    A distinctly un-American victory. As you love this country, your tears should be regretful and not rejoicing.
    You're right we should discriminate as much as the majority wants.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Gay marriage has nothing to do with equality.

    That is a surrogate argument only, the carrier.
    So you think that not allowing equals equality?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    "Is there a meaningful resolution to such questions? I certainly hope so. My preferred resolution would be an ending to government regulation of marriage, so that individual views on marriage are never more than a matter of opinion. That is not the state of law today, and the Iowa court's ruling has amplified that situation; it has not reduced it, and it most definitely has not negated it. The Iowa court could not hope to remedy that particular legal defect, for such a remedy is found in the legislative process, not the judicial process."

    I agree with your preferred solution because I believe strongly in the separation of church and state. In the church's eyes (because marriage WAS initially a sacrament received through the church) marriage should be between a man and a woman, and I find that to be completely acceptable. What I find to be unacceptable and downright discriminatory is the lack of a suitable alternative for homosexuals. The reason its unjust and discriminatory is because of the social benefits that a homosexual couple has no option of getting. Let a gay couple have rights such as insurance, life and death benefits and take the title off of it completely. Send it through another office and put a different name tag on it, but don't strip a couple of the rights that every other straight couple is entitled to just because of a word.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    In case I am not following this correctly, explain how the Marbury v. Madison decision was not a case of judicial activism.
    Simply put, because the decision did not seek to create new legal rights, or to expand definitions of rights. Marshall's opinion was exhaustive and precise in its legal reasoning, restricting the matters strictly to matters of law.

    Marshall's opinion was framed around three questions:
    1. Did Marbury have a right to the commission?
    2. Do the laws of the country give Marbury a legal remedy?
    3. Is asking the Supreme Court for a writ of mandamus the correct legal remedy?


    Marshall found that Marbury did have such a right, and that the laws of the country gave Marbury a remedy.

    HOWEVER

    Marbury erred by asking for remedy from the wrong court; more precisely, the law upon which his remedy was founded was wrong. The legislation on which he based his petition to the Supreme Court, Judiciary Act of 1789, was constitutionally flawed in that it expanded the reach of the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction as defined in Article III, Section 2 of the Constitution:
    In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.
    Marshall's conclusion was clear: Marbury was within his rights to seek remedy, but the law on which he based his petition was flawed, and thus the court did not have the power to grant the remedy he sought.

    Judicial activism occurs when courts define new rights, expand the definition of existing rights, or otherwise create law. This emphatically did not happen in Marbury v Madison

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