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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

  1. #181
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    You've said this twice now without listing those reasons. So why not list them for us.
    Already done in my lengthy post. Still your move to answer my question. Let's see if you can.
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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It is completely redefing how the equal protection provision was historically determined, this is the court determining social policy. It is a classic case of judicial activism.
    Exactly how was the the Equal Protection Clause of Iowa historically determined?

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    And, as an aside, to be clear, my position on the gay marriage issue is that the term marriage, a religious term for far longer than the US has existed, should only be a religious term. Government should only authorize civil unions, to both hetero- and homosexual couples. Religious sects, themselves, can decide whether or not to sanction homosexual (or heterosexual, for that matter) marriages. My argument is based, nearly solely, on the benefits to the family, and the human condition. Sexual orientation is not the key factor by any means, and love is, to me, a very weak argument in this.

    And I agree with those who said that the gay rights community is going about this all wrong. Focus on the family, and drop the "marriage" term. This could then be resolve, favorably, rather quickly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #184
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post



    Please show some evidence that polygamous marriage rears children as healthy and able to function as children of hetero- and homosexual marriage. There is plenty of data on both of those. I do not see why the government should support something unless there is some data showing it is helpful.
    .
    If I remember from our last conversation on the matter there are certainly some who feel the data on homosexuals is both far from plentiful or completely unflawed.

    You gave us your intepretation of the data as a whole and I was able to find those reasonably intelligent and qualified who drew different conclusions.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-04-09 at 04:45 AM.
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Exactly how was the the Equal Protection Clause of Iowa historically determined?
    Well not allowing homosexual marriage under this clause anyway, hence the case.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    If I remember from our last conversation on the matter there are certainly some who feel the data on homosexuals is both far from plentiful or completely unflawed.

    You gave us your intepretation of the data as a whole and I was able to find those reasonably intelligent and qualified who drew different conclusions.
    And if I recall our discussion on this, I rejected your position as did many others, both at DP and plenty that did the research themselves, or those that reviewed the research.

    But this is more about the polygamy argument. I'll ask you the same question I have asked others: show us how plural marriage benefits the government and society. Like them or not, there is plenty of research that shows how gay marriage would. In order to make the slippery slope argument, you must show research supporting how polygamy benefits the government and society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And if I recall our discussion on this, I rejected your position as did many others,
    Yes you did, others weren't invovled. One or two people on that thread took your intepretation at face value but didn't discuss it or show they'd come to their own similar conclusion.

    You however mistook what I was saying though. I quoted some sites that had a Christian slant who were interpretting the data, as you have a liberal slant, you however seemed to think I was quoting their data , which I was not. You mistakenly compared the Christian site(and there was another but i'm not sure it was Christian.) with the official science bodies doing this research and then stated the Christians re nothing as an authority compared to these. This would have been correct however the Christian site, or at least accredited author on that site, was analogous with these bodies but, they, like you were simply intepreting the data. They were analogous to your role. And no offense, and I do think you are a good poster, but I don't automatically think you are better than any Christian or rightwing source.

    both at DP and plenty that did the research themselves, or those that reviewed the research.
    I have not seen this. In that thread at least it was just your interpretation and those I quoted which as I recall included a British Christiant site that had the essay of a qualified in the area or of children or something like that, it's a little hard to remember.

    But this is more about the polygamy argument. I'll ask you the same question I have asked others: show us how plural marriage benefits the government and society. Like them or not, there is plenty of research that shows how gay marriage would. In order to make the slippery slope argument, you must show research supporting how polygamy benefits the government and society.
    I don't support polygamy.

    Although if you're saying no one can say that if we can allow gay marriage then we'll have to allow polygamy because of the lack of scientific support for polygamy as being beneficial to society then the flaw is in the fact that the gov't or public opinion, or whatever gets these things legalised or not in society, does not necessarily have to base its decision on this scientific data.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-04-09 at 05:30 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Yep seems like judicial activism to me. All bow to the liberal committee on public safety.
    You say that as if it an entirely bad thing. Have good changes brought on in the past not been brought up in a similar way. Its, in fact, part of what state and federal SC's do. Whether or not you agree with their "activism" depends solely on whether or not you share the same views to begin with.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    You say that as if it an entirely bad thing. Have good changes brought on in the past not been brought up in a similar way. Its, in fact, part of what state and federal SC's do. Whether or not you agree with their "activism" depends solely on whether or not you share the same views to begin with.
    It is an entirely bad thing. Judicial activism is creating law from the bench, not interpreting existing law. Courts are created to interpret the law. Legislatures are created to create the law.

    Legislatures are the expression of the will of the people, not courts.

    There is no social good derived from courts pre-empting legislatures. None whatsoever. Whenever this happens, it is to society's detriment.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It is an entirely bad thing. Judicial activism is creating law from the bench, not interpreting existing law. Courts are created to interpret the law. Legislatures are created to create the law.

    Legislatures are the expression of the will of the people, not courts.

    There is no social good derived from courts pre-empting legislatures. None whatsoever. Whenever this happens, it is to society's detriment.
    I agree with your definition of whats supposed to come from each, but its not a reality. All I'm saying is that good things have come of it, along with the bad (I can't deny that happens) As long as humans have any sort of power, which i assume will be a long time, bias and personal belief are going to be just as a big a part as the letter of the law itself.
    Last edited by Midwest Lib; 04-04-09 at 03:15 PM.

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