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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    You are trying to separate homosexuals from the rest of mankind based solely on their sexual preference and then trying to equate it to race discrimination. And then demanding new and different rights be established based on grounds of sexual preference.

    There is no separate but equal doctrine that can be overturned here as in 'Brown'.

    People of any sexual preference are allowed, in the U.S., to marry someone of the opposite gender.
    This is the 'right' that all have. It is equal in that it applies to all, regardless of race or sexual preference. (Of course with caveats. e.g. Age, relationship etc...)
    Homosexuals willingly and freely partake in this 'right'.


    The real argument being made is that homosexual couples want the same privileges and amenities that come with state sanctioned marriage.
    There is no reason that they shouldn't have these.

    They just do not need to usurp and try to redefine the term marriage to fit their purposes.
    This simply highlights the silliness of generalised calls for "equality". Homosexuals have the same rights to marry as heteros, they want the same rights to marry as heteros.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    A decision made where it should be made, in the courts....
    You mis-spelled "Legislature".

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    putting some issues to a vote is just plain stupid, the Prop. 8 fiasco in California proved that.....
    You are aware that Pro8 did not, in any way, deny homosexuals any civil right, correct?

    Under Prop8 gays can share each and every single civil right, without any exception at all whatsoever, with a member of the SAME sex, as their hetero counter parts can.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Does anyone have the name of the ruling, or beter yet, a link to it?

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional


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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Yep seems like judicial activism to me. All bow to the liberal committee on public safety.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Yep seems like judicial activism to me. All bow to the liberal committee on public safety.
    It is not judicial activism when the judges are following the letter of the law.

    Iowa Constitution
    Article XII, Section 1:
    "This constitution shall be the supreme law of the state, and any law inconsistent therewith, shall be void."

    Article I, Section 1:
    "All men and women are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inalienable rights--among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

    Article I, Section 6:
    "All laws of a general nature shall have a uniform operation; the general assembly shall not grant to any citizen, or class of citizens, privileges or immunities, which, upon the same terms shall not equally belong to all citizens."

    Being a legal institution in Iowa, marriage must be applied equally to all of its citizens.

    Iowa General Assembly - Iowa Constitution

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    It is not judicial activism when the judges are following the letter of the law.

    Iowa Constitution
    Article XII, Section 1:
    "This constitution shall be the supreme law of the state, and any law inconsistent therewith, shall be void."

    Article I, Section 1:
    "All men and women are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inalienable rights--among which are those of enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety and happiness.

    Article I, Section 6:
    "All laws of a general nature shall have a uniform operation; the general assembly shall not grant to any citizen, or class of citizens, privileges or immunities, which, upon the same terms shall not equally belong to all citizens."

    Being a legal institution in Iowa, marriage must be applied equally to all of its citizens.

    Iowa General Assembly - Iowa Constitution
    Exactly it was, they had the equal rights to marry those of the opposite sex. This is how it was interpreted prior to this piece of activism. What has happened is the court has decided to make social policy by reinterpreting what equal means. Classic case of judicial activism even if the equality Article is likely to be relatively recent.

    Generalised calls to equality are often quite lacking in meaning and precision as I said above. They had equal rights, they want equal rights. There is no set meaning of equal in this case, but historically it has been interpreted one way and a court has decided to change law and social policy by reinterpreting it. That is activism I'm afraid.

    This is separate from whether it is right to allow gay marriage, don't get means and ends mixed up.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-04-09 at 12:45 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Being a legal institution in Iowa, marriage must be applied equally to all of its citizens.
    If gays were now brought up to equal, that is if gays now have all the rights heteros had....then why do Iowan heteros now have the NEW ability to marry someone of the same gender when they didn't before?

    It is not that gays were given a right heteros had, it's that everyone now has a new civil right.

    No new right was established in Brown. No new right was established in Loving.

    Therefore, this wasn't ever about equality.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-04-09 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Exactly it was, they had the equal rights to marry those of the opposite sex. This is how it was interpreted prior to this piece of activism. What has happened is the court has decided to make social policy by reinterpreting what equal means. Classic case of judicial activism even if the equality Article is likely to be relatively recent.

    Generalised calls to equality are often quite lacking in meaning and precision as I said above. They had equal rights, they want equal rights. There is no set meaning of equal in this case, but historically it has been interpreted one way and a court has decided to change law and social policy by reinterpreting it. That is activism I'm afraid.

    This is separate from whether it is right to allow gay marriage, don't get means and ends mixed up.
    From the ruling:
    "It is true the marriage statute does not expressly prohibit gay and lesbian persons from marrying; it does, however, require that if they marry, it must be to someone of the opposite sex. Viewed in the complete context of marriage, including intimacy, civil marriage with a person of the opposite sex is as unappealing to a gay or lesbian person as civil marriage with a person of the same sex is to a heterosexual. Thus, the right of a gay or lesbian person under the marriage statute to enter into a civil marriage only with a person of the opposite sex is no right at all. Under such a law, gay or lesbian individuals cannot simultaneously fulfill their deeply felt need for a committed personal relationship, as influenced by their sexual orientation, and gain the civil status and attendant benefits granted by the statute. Instead, a gay or lesbian person can only gain the same rights under the statute as a heterosexual person by negating the very trait that defines gay and lesbian people as a class—their sexual orientation."

    "By purposefully placing civil marriage outside the realistic reach of gay
    and lesbian individuals, the ban on same-sex civil marriages differentiates
    implicitly on the basis of sexual orientation."

    It is not equal to say a person has the right to marry someone of a different gender when that is not their preference, yet another class of people are allowed to marry the person of their choosing. This law, in its essence, is removing the right of gay people to marry all together.

    http://www.judicial.state.ia.us/wfDa...um/07-1499.pdf

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    It is not equal to say a person has the right to marry someone of a different gender when that is not their preference, yet another class of people are allowed to marry the person of their choosing. This law, in its essence, is removing the right of gay people to marry all together.
    Sure it is equal, they have equal rights to marry someone of the opposite sex. It is also equal if they can marry someone of the same sex. Both situations are "equal". Equal is not a simple category in some cases. In Iowa it was historically determined in this case and that has been overturned by a court engaging in judicial activism to set social policy.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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