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Thread: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    By providing them with natural resources at unjustly low prices.Foreign aid is a form of reparation for the way in which the third world loses out in global trade, not charity.
    Foreign aid is charity.

    If third world countries want to engage in global trade, let them focus their energies on developing such goods as they can export profitably. In short, they should trade. Then they would not "lose out" on global trade.

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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    Yeah someone please tell me what I or my wife have ever done to anyone in those countries. If you can tell me how I personaly screwed them over than I will be happy to give to them. If not I would pefer to keep my money for myself thank you very much.
    Where did you ever get the absurd idea that you had to personally be responsible for something for the government to have to pay for it?

    I've personally never flown a plane into a skyscraper, so should I have to pay taxes to fight terrorism?
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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Foreign aid is charity.
    Not if done properly. Countries need to reach a certain base level of development before they can really develop their economies on their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    If third world countries want to engage in global trade, let them focus their energies on developing such goods as they can export profitably. In short, they should trade. Then they would not "lose out" on global trade.
    The problem is that they can't develop any goods without some assistance. As I mentioned earlier, their workforce is completely unmarketable if it's constantly dying from easily-preventable diseases and has a fourth-grade education. Their agriculture is completely unmarketable if they constantly ruin their environment and practice unsustainable development. And they can never hope to provide these things as long as their population continues to explode because they don't have access to condoms.

    I completely agree with you that they need to start trading and developing profitable exports. But the problem is that they can't get to that point without some outside assistance. Foreign aid assistance in certain key areas - health (this is the most important one by far), education, environment, and birth control - would help them reach the point where they can start building up their economies on their own. It wouldn't even cost nearly as much or last nearly as long as most people think.
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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Spreading the wealth is essential to help the poorest nations escape poverty. Once they've built their economy up to a certain point, they will no longer require outside economic aid.
    And how many countries have built their economies up on the basis of foreign aid? Precious few. I live in one of the VERY few countries that could actually HONESTLY make the claim.
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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It's worked quite well in most places where foreign aid has actually been committed. The problem with Africa isn't that foreign assistance hasn't worked, it's that developed nations have been much more stingy with their foreign aid money to Africa than they were to most Asian countries.
    How many countries have risen out of poverty as a result of handouts from western governments? If you look at it very closely, you would find that the number is very small indeed.
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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The problem is that they can't develop any goods without some assistance. As I mentioned earlier, their workforce is completely unmarketable if it's constantly dying from easily-preventable diseases and has a fourth-grade education. Their agriculture is completely unmarketable if they constantly ruin their environment and practice unsustainable development. And they can never hope to provide these things as long as their population continues to explode because they don't have access to condoms.
    Do they have commodities such as oil and minerals?

    Do they have resources such as timber?

    If they are as worthless as you describe, how can they ever hope to trade?

    If they are not worthless, why not build their global trade around what resources they have that are of value?

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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And how many countries have built their economies up on the basis of foreign aid? Precious few. I live in one of the VERY few countries that could actually HONESTLY make the claim.
    Pretty much every successful country can honestly make that claim, with the possible exceptions of the US and the UK. And I would question how much even those are exceptions.

    Many of those countries started from better starting points than many African nations do...but they also received a lot more assistance. It would actually not be very expensive to eliminate 99% of malaria cases in Africa, distribute condoms, teach people how to read and do basic arithmetic, encourage sustainable environmental practices, provide clean water, and provide nitrates to help people grow crops.

    If those things were commonplace throughout Africa, African trade with the rest of the world would boom. An initial investment can pay huge dividends...both for the African countries in question, and for their trade partners in the rest of the world.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-04-09 at 04:39 PM.
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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Do they have commodities such as oil and minerals?

    Do they have resources such as timber?
    Yes, many parts of Africa are very-resource rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    If they are as worthless as you describe, how can they ever hope to trade?

    If they are not worthless, why not build their global trade around what resources they have that are of value?
    Because they practice unsustainable development and have a sickly/uneducated work force. They can never hope to develop their economy as long as those problems remain. Foreign aid can go a long way to preventing these problems.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-04-09 at 04:29 PM.
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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Pretty much every successful country can honestly make that claim, with the possible exceptions of the US and the UK. And I would question how much even those are exceptions.
    I would argue that the UK isnt an exception attal. We would have been ****ed without the Marshall Plan [he says begrudginly]

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    Re: G-20 to give $1 trillion to IMF, World Bank

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Do they have commodities such as oil and minerals?

    Do they have resources such as timber?

    If they are as worthless as you describe, how can they ever hope to trade?

    If they are not worthless, why not build their global trade around what resources they have that are of value?
    And therein lies the problem. Firstly exporting these things is very difficult given the tarrifs for importing things into developed economys like the US and EU are very high. Secondly it tends to be those exporting raw materials to industrialised countys that get the raw end of the deal hence why industrialised countrys are richer [see Andre Gunther Frank].

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