• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

Goobieman

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
17,343
Reaction score
2,876
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.

What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

Now...why do you suppose the Clinton State Department misrepresented that 90% figure?
 
Now if our government would enforce our border and immigration laws, we could reduce the number even further.

That would be smart policy, instead of penalizing our citizens by trying to violate the 2nd amendment and banning guns.
 
Now if our government would enforce our border and immigration laws, we could reduce the number even further.

That would be smart policy, instead of penalizing our citizens by trying to violate the 2nd amendment and banning guns.
If only liberals read the 2nd amendment like they do the amendment that protects the right to an abortion...
 

Because the ultimate goal is to increase the size, scope, and power of government and to remove the tools of the People to resist such assaults against their rights and liberties. One way is to disarm the populace, so any amount of misinformation and propaganda used to justify the confiscation and restriction of firearms to the People will be used. Gotta love those Republocrats.
 
EXCLUSIVE: You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.

-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.

-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.

-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."

-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."

There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:

It's just not true.

In fact, it's not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com
DOH!

Obama lied, people died.
 
Last edited:
Sir, you fail.
 
FOX News said:
The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.

Fun with statistics. The 90% is obviously inflated. And common sense tells us that 17% is most likely the minimum number. The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between.

But it is interesting how numbers like this get tossed about in the public with little or no scrutiny.

:doh
 
But it is interesting how numbers like this get tossed about in the public with little or no scrutiny.
That was large part of the previous thread on the same subject -- the press gobbled up the number and didn't do a thing to check it out.

And to think that some people took exception to the criticism of the press on that point.
 
Now if our government would enforce our border and immigration laws, we could reduce the number even further.

That would be smart policy, instead of penalizing our citizens by trying to violate the 2nd amendment and banning guns.

Border "enforcement" is itself based upon a myth. At the core of addressing problems related to immigration is repeal of trade liberalization.
 
Border "enforcement" is itself based upon a myth. At the core of addressing problems related to immigration is repeal of trade liberalization.

No, we need to increase funding of our naturalization program and increase the quotas while simultaneously working to expel the illegal immigrants.
 
No, we need to increase funding of our naturalization program and increase the quotas while simultaneously working to expel the illegal immigrants.

That's an inefficient and ultimately untenable course of action. Repeal of trade liberalization will eventually reverse the destabilized state of the Mexican working class.
 
That's an inefficient and ultimately untenable course of action. Repeal of trade liberalization will eventually reverse the destabilized state of the Mexican working class.

Not really. The reason they're coming over here is because the cost of labor in Mexico is **** and the average person lives in squalor. They can come over here and reduce the cost of labor in America, thus revitalizing our manufacturing sector while increasing the cost of labor in Mexico, thus increasing the quality of life of the working man in Mexico.
 
Fun with statistics. The 90% is obviously inflated. And common sense tells us that 17% is most likely the minimum number. The truth, as always, lies somewhere in between.

But it is interesting how numbers like this get tossed about in the public with little or no scrutiny.

:doh

Since the media shares the same anti-2nd amendment sentiment that a lot of those in office share or claim to share it was in their interest to spread the lie.
 
-- the press gobbled up the number and didn't do a thing to check it out.

Sadly, this is pretty much standard operating procedure for news media.

I miss the days when you had well researched articles that took a full day to write instead of those that have a 3hr deadline. This is the sad side effect of the age of information.
 
Sadly, this is pretty much standard operating procedure for news media.

I miss the days when you had well researched articles that took a full day to write instead of those that have a 3hr deadline. This is the sad side effect of the age of information.

The article itself answers your dilemma. Many guns have the numbers filed off. You can't trace them, so there's no use sending them back to the US, even though they might say "Colt" on the grip. Mexicans like American guns, that's why 90% of the guns they use are American.
 
The article itself answers your dilemma. Many guns have the numbers filed off. You can't trace them, so there's no use sending them back to the US, even though they might say "Colt" on the grip. Mexicans like American guns, that's why 90% of the guns they use are American.

loool

So.. mexico confiscated 29k weapons.. and of those 29k the 6k or whatever were supposedly american made.

We're back to economics 101.. why would drug cartel a buy AR15s and Semi-Automatic ak47s from the United States at $1k a pop... when they can buy Russian, Cuban, and Chinese AK47s which are full auto for $250-300 a pop?

Also, can you please enlighten me as to where I can legally purchase an m60, an m4, or a full auto ak47 in our country? Possibly could you also tell me where I can pick up RPGs and grenades? Last time I checked Bass Pro Shop didn't carry them. :roll:
 
The article itself answers your dilemma. Many guns have the numbers filed off. You can't trace them, so there's no use sending them back to the US, even though they might say "Colt" on the grip. Mexicans like American guns, that's why 90% of the guns they use are American.


Can you provide proof of those numbers being filed off? Can you give me an explanation of why a WANTED CRIMINAL in possesion of an ILLEGAL WEAPON who has killed or is prepared to kill police and federal agents would care about filing off a serial number?

People file off serial numbers of personal REGISTERED weapons in the case of having to dump the weapon if used in a crime. So unless the Mexican gangs start using their own ID's to register their illegal firearms in the US is really doesn't matter. Strawman purchasers take from various clients and then disappear. Thats why you don't see arrests on those individuals.

The Mexican government still has yet to publically admit weapons, explosives, and ammunition coming from other countries despite their own news agencies reporting the trace information.

This is a setup to reliquish pressure on the own government being at fault while providing a scapegoat (the US). Additionally it gives them the ability to play on guilt when asking for financial aid, training, equipment, and TRADE deals in the future. And they will ask. NAFTA II in the making.
 
We're back to economics 101.. why would drug cartel a buy AR15s and Semi-Automatic ak47s from the United States at $1k a pop... when they can buy Russian, Cuban, and Chinese AK47s which are full auto for $250-300 a pop?

Also, can you please enlighten me as to where I can legally purchase an m60, an m4, or a full auto ak47 in our country? Possibly could you also tell me where I can pick up RPGs and grenades? Last time I checked Bass Pro Shop didn't carry them. :roll:

You'd think these type of detailed (and relevant) questions would be not only essential, but quite fascinating to any decent news reporter assigned to this story. It appears not.

I don't know what they teach in journalism schools these days. I really don't. Many can't even determine when to use 'then' or 'than' or 'who,' 'whom' or 'that'.

:confused:
 
Last edited:

Top 5 List
5. Because it is a difficult statistic to find. Like the Raw FBI files found in her closet.
4. It was the fault of the press. She really said 19%.
3. She is the smartest woman in the world, and what she says... goes. (Ask Bill).
2. The Clintons like to shoot their wad first and clean up the mess after.
1. She has the same twisted world view as Obama; blame America first.


.
 
I guess I don't understand what the big deal is. If I read this article from the conservative Washington Times:

U.S.-Mexico border violence persists - Washington Times

And this one from USA Today:

ATF: most illegal guns in Mexico come from U.S. - USATODAY.com

I would think that 90% of guns found in Mexico could be traced back to the United States. What I find interesting is that the facts alleged by Hillary Clinton and company were asserted by Michael Sullivan. The ones alleged in the Fox News article are asserted by a nameless person.

I'm not saying that the facts alleged by Hillary Clinton and company are right; rather, I am saying that what they stated was based on facts that perhaps failed to use the specific terminology that the nameless ATF employee provided.
 
Back
Top Bottom