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Thread: Man dies during G20 protests in London

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    All that becomes moot when the crowd starts destroying downtown. Once windows start breaking, businesses start getting destroyed, etc the police then have the right to come and bust up the assembly as it is no longer "peaceful" by any stretch of the imagination. There is no right to vandalize, loot, spray paint, etc. None. The police have an obligation to protect property owners from unlawful chaotic destruction. The protesters could come down hard on the anarchists and/or chaos lovers who see any and every protest as an opportunity to go hog wild with abandon but more often than not the protesters are seen cheering the goofs on and hiding/protecting the unlawful persons in their midst.
    Aye, this is true. My contention was needing government permit to protest, as to protest is innate and inalienable right. I don't think you need permission to exercise rights. When the rights of others are infringed upon, then yes the government is authorized to intercede, as is most likely the case here. But in general, assembly, association, redress, and protest are innate and inalienable rights and should be recognized in their full.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Aye, this is true. My contention was needing government permit to protest, as to protest is innate and inalienable right. I don't think you need permission to exercise rights. When the rights of others are infringed upon, then yes the government is authorized to intercede, as is most likely the case here. But in general, assembly, association, redress, and protest are innate and inalienable rights and should be recognized in their full.
    The permit is necessary for the protection of the people. If the cops are not forewarned about big assemblies of people they will not be prepared to come in and control the situation should it get out of hand. I don't see the permit process as a hindrance to the right of peaceful assembly. It's more like a "heads up" so preparations can be made for adequate personnel for crowd control and medics and what not. It's important that certain routes be kept clear so fire, police, and ambulance, can still travel freely. If permits were being denied in large numbers I'd see your point. But to the best of my knowledge these permits are easy, perhaps too easy, to get. They don't refuse to hand out a permit very often. What they commonly do is place restrictions on how much of the street you may block, which streets you may block, etc and this is for the safety of all. I can not imagine the mess we would be in if these protests happened without the cities being prepared for them, with no advance notice, and limited personnel on duty to handle the crowds.

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    I don't like the idea of permits because permits are a form of permission. And if something is a right, you shouldn't have to ask permission from the government to exercise it. I take that stance with all rights, including guns.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't like the idea of permits because permits are a form of permission. And if something is a right, you shouldn't have to ask permission from the government to exercise it. I take that stance with all rights, including guns.
    Well that's just impractical. I have a right to own property. Doesn't mean I don't need to jump through all the hoops to buy it and have it officiated. My children have a right to free schooling. Doesn't mean I can just drop them off at any school with no notice and not fill out the proper documents.

    Large protests need to have some limits imposed on them for practical reasons. Left to their own devices protesters would be only to happy to block off all major accesses into or out of a main downtown area. They'd happily destroy cops and their cop cars if the police were short staffed due to little notice. Meanwhile non-protesting property owners and other citizens would take the city to task for not having prepared adequately for controlling crowds, leaving paths for emergency vehicles, property damage, etc.

    It's one thing to spout unrealistic ideals and another thing to actually have to govern, regulate, and run a city.

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well that's just impractical. I have a right to own property. Doesn't mean I don't need to jump through all the hoops to buy it and have it officiated. My children have a right to free schooling. Doesn't mean I can just drop them off at any school with no notice and not fill out the proper documents.

    Large protests need to have some limits imposed on them for practical reasons. Left to their own devices protesters would be only to happy to block off all major accesses into or out of a main downtown area. They'd happily destroy cops and their cop cars if the police were short staffed due to little notice. Meanwhile non-protesting property owners and other citizens would take the city to task for not having prepared adequately for controlling crowds, leaving paths for emergency vehicles, property damage, etc.

    It's one thing to spout unrealistic ideals and another thing to actually have to govern, regulate, and run a city.
    It applies to all kinds of large gatherings, not just protests. In Somerset,WI they used to( and might still ) have the Ozzfest tour. A town of 1200 people, with 50,000 more coming into their town. If there was no permit outlining the time and place for the concert, Ozzy and his crew and all the other bands could just set up on the one road, block all the traffic for 2 days or however long it takes to set up, play, and tear down. Nobody in that town is going to want that.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    It applies to all kinds of large gatherings, not just protests. In Somerset,WI they used to( and might still ) have the Ozzfest tour. A town of 1200 people, with 50,000 more coming into their town. If there was no permit outlining the time and place for the concert, Ozzy and his crew and all the other bands could just set up on the one road, block all the traffic for 2 days or however long it takes to set up, play, and tear down. Nobody in that town is going to want that.
    True. I need a permit for block parties and garage sales. Any potential large gathering requires a "heads up."

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The police was so vicious yesterday, unbelieveable
    Pause for a moment everybody. I was there, and none of it was real blood. They put red paint on there faces and told the media reporters that the police had assualted them. Low, misguiding propaganda against the police. Dont buy it for a second that it's real blood. I couldnt believe me eyes. They where literally going around with cans and cans of red paint and asking people if they wanted some. The police didnt lay a finger on anybody and when they did they sure as hell didnt beat them to the point there heads where split open and bleeding. For god sake this is Britain. We are the centre of political correctness and the police uphold those standards.
    The only person i saw who was actually bleeding got assualted by a guy in the crowd. Plus, there not all tree hugging anti-carbon retards, most of them there where communists.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 04-02-09 at 06:52 PM.
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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Maybe it's impractical, but I think emphasis must be placed on the rights of the individual. It's the acknowledgment of these rights which can really lead to the proper limitations and restrictions placed upon government. If we think of things as nothing more than privilege granted to us by the government, then we've already lost.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Pause for a moment everybody. I was there, and none of it was real blood. They put red paint on there faces and told the media reporters that the police had assualted them. Low, misguiding propaganda against the police. Dont buy it for a second that it's real blood. I couldnt believe me eyes. They where literally going around with cans and cans of red paint and asking people if they wanted some. The police didnt lay a finger on anybody and when they did they sure as hell didnt beat them to the point there heads where split open and bleeding. For god sake this is Britain. We are the centre of political correctness and the police uphold those standards.
    The only person i saw who was actually bleeding got assualted by a guy in the crowd. Plus, there not all tree hugging anti-carbon retards, most of them there where communists.
    This was an organized attempt to start a riot, perhaps in their minds a prelude to a revolution.

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    Re: Man dies during G20 protests in London

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    This was an organized attempt to start a riot, perhaps in their minds a prelude to a revolution.
    Unfortunately one thing was missing. People giving a ****.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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