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Thread: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Humans are ALWAYS more deserving than any and all animals.
    Not for me. If some human (I use the term loosely) decides he/she want's to kill my cat and I catch him in the process he is dead, no regrets.

    Just because you are human does not mean you are more deserving of life to me. Maybe in court it will, but in real life, that person would be dead.

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Not for me. If some human (I use the term loosely) decides he/she want's to kill my cat and I catch him in the process he is dead, no regrets.

    Just because you are human does not mean you are more deserving of life to me. Maybe in court it will, but in real life, that person would be dead.
    Does that mean you would kill me if I ate at a Chinese restaurant?
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Does that mean you would kill me if I ate at a Chinese restaurant?
    Nah I wouldn't kill you, I would kill the mother****** that killed my cat to make your meal.

    More than likely if I found out and knew you ate my cat I would find a way to f**k up your fortune cookie

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Here's the thing, Mike Vick could've intentionally killed a million dogs. He could've butt-raped an Emu, or caused the extinction of the Polar Bear for all I care and it wouldn't be nearly as bad as what happened here.

    They are ANIMALS. Intentionally killing them is, well, it's basically HUNTING. the only reason we treat Vick like a criminal in this case is because we have an irrational love for dogs.

    Should we ban mousetraps, or even better, prosecute people for setting them? Well it is the premeditated TORTURE of another creature, isn't it? Why is it OK to snap the spine of a mouse, but not drown a dog?
    I hate to say this but your comparison is like saying that people who are in battle in the military are "Murderers" because they kill people, and Murderer's kill people, so those things are exactly the same thing.

    It isn't.

    There is a cultural aspect to it. From birth, almost any person within this country is going to understand there is a difference between a domesticated animal and a vermin, which is what a mouse is.

    The wanton torture and killing of said animals, not out of any kind of necessity but out of sport and greed, is far different than the killing of something considered a vermin for the sake of health. Much like killing someone upon the battle field is different than breaking into someones home and shooting them dead because you want their stereo.

    This isn't excusing what Stallworth did, but I think you're attempting to devalue what Mike Vick did to try and prop up Stallworths, which actually seems to devalue your case against Stallworth.

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Here's the thing, Mike Vick could've intentionally killed a million dogs. He could've butt-raped an Emu, or caused the extinction of the Polar Bear for all I care and it wouldn't be nearly as bad as what happened here.

    They are ANIMALS. Intentionally killing them is, well, it's basically HUNTING. the only reason we treat Vick like a criminal in this case is because we have an irrational love for dogs.

    Should we ban mousetraps, or even better, prosecute people for setting them? Well it is the premeditated TORTURE of another creature, isn't it? Why is it OK to snap the spine of a mouse, but not drown a dog?
    I hate to say this but your comparison is like saying that people who are in battle in the military are "Murderers" because they kill people, and Murderer's kill people, so those things are exactly the same thing.

    It isn't.

    There is a societal aspect to it. From birth, almost any person within this country is going to understand there is a difference between a domesticated animal and a vermin, which is what a mouse is.

    The wanton torture and killing of said animals, not out of any kind of necessity but out of sport and greed, is far different than the killing of something considered a vermin for the sake of health. Much like killing someone upon the battle field is different than breaking into someones home and shooting them dead because you want their stereo.

    This isn't excusing what Stallworth did, but I think you're attempting to devalue what Mike Vick did to try and prop up Stallworths, which actually seems to devalue your case against Stallworth.

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Dolphins have been known to. Plus a pack of lions will stalk and kill prey much larger than them, that basically requires they bleed the animal to death as well. Not all kills are so merciful.

    I'm just saying, nature is cruel and if our ancestors would have been dumb enough to play the dignity game, we'd be some other creatures meals rather than vice versa. You think a tiger in the wild gives a crap about our dignity?
    I get your point to a certain extent. Thing is, animals are instinctual, while humans have the ability to think things through. This is why we are at the top of the chain of course.

    I have nothing against killing animals for sustenance. But rearing and killing should be done proper, with dignity, and not be wasteful.

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I've been arguing that what Stalworth did is much, much worse than what Vick did, but there is no concerted uproar and calls for his head as there were for Vick.

    I find that tremendously distrubing.

    Edit: And you had said "The other is just a stupid mistake" A DUI killing is not "just a stupid mistake". It's a thought-out criminal mistake.
    Here's a question for you, Tucker. If Tiger Woods killed a pedestrian with his car while half in the bag, do you think it would get the same level of attention as Stallworth?

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Not exactly sure what you're referring to.

    If it's along the lines of an antelope being ravaged by a pack of lions, I'd say the death was fast. Don't they suffocate their prey first? And nothing, I mean nothing, goes to waste. Wild animals don't kill for fun and kicks as far as I know.

    Chimpanzees murder each other all the time. Tons of animals kill for fun. Certain wasps actually create zombies that are tortured to death. Killer whales torture seals before they eat them by tossing them in the air and smacking them with their tails.

    Nature is far more brutal than you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Alright, my bad. I misinterpreted what you were saying. When you were saying it was an intentional, conscientious choice I thought you were arguing for premeditation and intent to kill or harm; the defining characteristics of murder. I think people can definitely make the conscientious to drink and drive, but I don't think that translates into murder or wishing to harm people and I don't think in cases of DUI people should be brought up on anything more than negligent homicide.

    But I think maybe we just said the same things there, so it's all good. Sorry about that.


    On a side note (this is not related to any one post or poster), PETA is a scam and should be put down.
    Thanks. We cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Here's a question for you, Tucker. If Tiger Woods killed a pedestrian with his car while half in the bag, do you think it would get the same level of attention as Stallworth?
    I'm not comparing the attention as much as the outrage. If Tiger killed a dude in a DUI it would surely get attention, but not as much as Vick did, and nowhere near as much outrage.

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I hate to say this but your comparison is like saying that people who are in battle in the military are "Murderers" because they kill people, and Murderer's kill people, so those things are exactly the same thing.

    It isn't.

    There is a societal aspect to it. From birth, almost any person within this country is going to understand there is a difference between a domesticated animal and a vermin, which is what a mouse is.

    The wanton torture and killing of said animals, not out of any kind of necessity but out of sport and greed, is far different than the killing of something considered a vermin for the sake of health. Much like killing someone upon the battle field is different than breaking into someones home and shooting them dead because you want their stereo.

    This isn't excusing what Stallworth did, but I think you're attempting to devalue what Mike Vick did to try and prop up Stallworths, which actually seems to devalue your case against Stallworth.
    I'm not trying to devaluing what Vick did, so much as apply the correct value. The issue is definitely societal. And we've OVERvalued what Vick did to the point that we have already DEvalued what Stallworth did.

    This imbalance is already present.

    I'm calling for a correction of our views on things, because what they are now is completely ****ed up.


    With humans, there can be justifiable reasons to kill someone. Such as while waging war. And there are also unjustifiable reasons.

    With animals, there is no such distinction. Killing an animal that you own is always justifiable. There is no such thing as unjustified canicide.

    Torturing an animal is the only thing that can be considered criminal. Simply killing an animal that you own should not be a crime. Ever.

    What Mike Vick did that was wrong was the way he killed the animals, not the fact that he killed them. But they are his property.

    If I kill someone else's animal, I should be charged with criminal damage to property and that is it. That's all I did.

    The difference between domesticated animals and non-domesticated animals is that domesticated animals are property, and property rights indicate that you can do wit them as you wish.

    If I own a cow, I am allowed to slaughter that animal and eat it with no risk of penalty. I should also have that right with my dog.

    What I should not have a right to do is torture that animal. Again, this is where Vick went wrong. If he killed these animals in a humane fashion, such as putting them to sleep, he should have only gotten done up on th eillegal gambling ring.

    But at the same time, we aren't discussing the comparison of Justifiable homicide (soldiers at war) and torturing dogs. We are comparing an UNjustifiable homicide and torturing dogs.

    Only in a world that has gone completely bonkers is the torturing of animals put on the same level or above unjustifiable homicide.

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    Re: AP sources: Browns' Stallworth will be charged with DUI manslaughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Chimpanzees murder each other all the time. Tons of animals kill for fun. Certain wasps actually create zombies that are tortured to death. Killer whales torture seals before they eat them by tossing them in the air and smacking them with their tails.

    Nature is far more brutal than you think.
    Though I don't deny what you wrote above, I do think it's exaggerated.

    In any event, as I posted earlier, animals go by instinct while we have the ability to think logically and reason.


    I'm not comparing the attention as much as the outrage. If Tiger killed a dude in a DUI it would surely get attention, but not as much as Vick did, and nowhere near as much outrage.
    I disagree with the bolded part. I do think it would generate as much press, but I guess we'll never know for sure.

    As far as outrage, I agree. But that because when sober, Tiger is not a murderer.
    Last edited by Middleground; 04-02-09 at 09:48 AM.

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