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Thread: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Criticizing a misspeak as "lieing" isn't valid. And frankly, the opinions of hypocrites that criticize Obama about "lieing" for a misspeak that never made a peep about Bush's promises of no nation building and no world policing or the issues with WMD's and other things in regards to Iraq are also invalid.
    So, the grandiloquent pontificator misspoke? If that is indeed the case then he should clarify his statement.

    ANY taxes means ANY taxes. It doesn't mean any taxes EXCEPT _________.

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, the grandiloquent pontificator misspoke? If that is indeed the case then he should clarify his statement.

    ANY taxes means ANY taxes. It doesn't mean any taxes EXCEPT _________.
    YOUR problem is that YOU don't understand the meaning of 'is'.

    I asked for the stipulation within the term "any" that excludes taxes on tobacco. I haven't received a response.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 04-02-09 at 03:45 PM.

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    So, the grandiloquent pontificator misspoke? If that is indeed the case then he should clarify his statement.

    ANY taxes means ANY taxes. It doesn't mean any taxes EXCEPT _________.
    No, by not being a extremely partisan or someone looking to take people out of context by going strictly literal, ANY Taxes in that context meant ANY taxes specifically designed for a tax bracket under $250,000. Which this is not the case.

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Didn't he state that if you made less than that your "taxes will not go up one dime"?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Yes, in the context of speaking about taxes that are specific to the income one makes.

    Consumption taxes are not specific to income levels.

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, in the context of speaking about taxes that are specific to the income one makes.

    Consumption taxes are not specific to income levels.


    So, if I know, I am going to raise consumption taxes to pay for my statist goals and government programs, Am I being honest in making that statment?
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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So, if I know, I am going to raise consumption taxes to pay for my statist goals and government programs, Am I being honest in making that statment?
    At best, it is a not-so-carefully crafted exceptionary statement, so that when He DOES raise those taxes, He can say 'well, I promised not to raise INCOME taxes -- and this isnt an income tax".

    (Note how this is EXACTLY the argument used for His defense...)

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    For example...

    Lets say this was something different. Lets say a random politician started going "Under my administration I promise we will have no new entitlement programs. We won't have new health care programs, we won't have new perscription programs, we won't have new daycare programs. We won't have any new programs".

    If he then comes out and create a program that provides those that are unemployed a chance to attend a course where they learn a job skill and actually do said job while learning it (for example, normal trade skills), would he be lying?

    While it is a government program, its not technically an "entitlement" program. However, he did say "any new programs" at the end of it. Do you say the person is lying, becuase he did create a new program and that goes against what he literally said, or do you say he wasn't lying but perhaps misspoke because the CONTEXT of it makes it clear he's talking specifically about entitlement programs?

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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    For example...

    Lets say this was something different. Lets say a random politician started going "Under my administration I promise we will have no new entitlement programs. We won't have new health care programs, we won't have new perscription programs, we won't have new daycare programs. We won't have any new programs".

    If he then comes out and create a program that provides those that are unemployed a chance to attend a course where they learn a job skill and actually do said job while learning it (for example, normal trade skills), would he be lying?

    While it is a government program, its not technically an "entitlement" program. However, he did say "any new programs" at the end of it. Do you say the person is lying, becuase he did create a new program and that goes against what he literally said, or do you say he wasn't lying but perhaps misspoke because the CONTEXT of it makes it clear he's talking specifically about entitlement programs?



    How is that not an entitlement program? They are "entitled" to that course.
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    Re: PROMISES, PROMISES: Obama tax pledge up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So, if I know, I am going to raise consumption taxes to pay for my statist goals and government programs, Am I being honest in making that statment?
    Its an honest statement, but you're being deceiptful. That said, I'm not going to personally hound Obama for potentially being decieptful when he did nothing different than what every politician, Democrat or Republican, have likely done at some point in their political lives. I would say its not much of a "change" from politics as usual, but then I've been saying that about him for ages now.

    I would say that its not a "lie" though and not proof he's a "liar".

    Oh, by the way, my answer has nothing to do with it being about "statist goals and government programs". The same is true if a republican campaigned that they would significantly lower taxes for people, and then ended up lowering the taxes by .5% for everyone making under $100,000 while lowering it by 10% for those making over $100,000. Politicians routinely state things in ways that are factual, but misleading, specifically to avoid saying the portions people won't dislike. People that get EXTREMELY upset over that but only when one side does it are hillariously hypocritical.

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