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Mired in violence, gun-strict Mexico points to U.S.

Oh, a few armed citizens is far more terrifying than regular army. That's been proven time and again throughout history, and in particular throughout Mexican history.

Regular army you can see coming, and they make such nice targets--assuming they can't be bribed first. Regular folk are everywhere and blend in so well they are harder to pick off; additionally, since they presumably don't like the cartels, the efficacy of bribery is greatly diminished.

Ah so you suggesting more or less a revolution
 
Are you suggesting that if the general populace were armed some how the problem of gun violence would be cured? How would this work? Would the general pop form vigilante gangs?

Come on, Winston. You know that's a weak strawman there.

I never implied that there was any such thing as this mythical "cure" for gun violence. I would sooner argue in favor of the existence of Leprechauns than try to make people believe that fairy tale.

I'm saying disarming the populous exacerbates the problem of gun violence. I'm not saying it will be "cured" by arming the populous, I'm saying that not disarming the populous will prevent such an exacerbation.

I'm saying preventing law abiding citizens from getting guns in order to protect themselves form the criminal element only serves to make matters worse.

The only people who buy the myth that gun violence can be "cured" are those who buy into the myth that gun control is this fantasy cure-all.

There is no cure for gun violence, but by making it impossible for people to defend themselves, and forcing them to rely on an inept and corrupt police system, only serves to make matters worse and strengthen the criminals who are not nearly as inept, and have corrupted the police system.
 
Ah so you suggesting more or less a revolution
I'm suggesting a few law abiding Mexicans be allowed to shoot back.

It's only a revolution if the police and the army decide to stay in the pay of the cartels....in which case a revolution would be a good thing.
 
lul I know this, it seems others aren't very educated in the matter as they continue to prove everytime they post about us citizens buying select fire weapons and sending them to mexico. :roll:
When this originally came up, the story contained information that the guns were being illegally sold to straw purchasers by dealers who were in the employment of the drug cartels.

I notice that information is missing here. I wonder why.
I also wonder how a responsible and porfessional press corps could omit such a thing.

As I said -- all of this just shows how desperate the anti-gun side is to ban 'assault weapons', and to what lengths they will go do justify such a thing.
 
Well since the cartels are already not scared of the Mexican authorities I doubt a few armed citizens will have an impact.

A paid soldier can be bought. And that's a big problem in Mexico. Whereas a man defending his home and family is far more of a threat.
 
In regards to Winston, and yourself.

Could you please enlighten me as to where I can buy LEGAL FULL AUTO or SELECT FIRE weapons in this country?

Please, I've got my savings account waiting.. I'll buy up a bunch of them right now. :roll:

I was actually saying that it doesn't matter where they are getting the guns from. Here, Columbia, Russia, doesn't make a difference. The only thing that matters is that they are getting the weapons DESPITE the strict gun control laws.
 
A paid soldier can be bought. And that's a big problem in Mexico. Whereas a man defending his home and family is far more of a threat.

So just give the guy a couple of bucks. Or send the paid soldiers in.
 
When this originally came up, the story contained information that the guns were being illegally sold to straw purchasers by dealers who were in the employment of the drug cartels.

I notice that information is missing here. I wonder why.
I also wonder how a responsible and porfessional press corps could omit such a thing.

As I said -- all of this just shows how desperate the anti-gun side is to ban 'assault weapons', and to what lengths they will go do justify such a thing.

Yeah, basically.... the administration has been quoted as saying "Never waste a crisis."... Wonder if they're taking this to heart these days.
 
I was actually saying that it doesn't matter where they are getting the guns from. Here, Columbia, Russia, doesn't make a difference. The only thing that matters is that they are getting the weapons DESPITE the strict gun control laws.

Legal or illegal I think they would get them. Like strict drug laws in this country.
 
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lul I know this, it seems others aren't very educated in the matter as they continue to prove everytime they post about us citizens buying select fire weapons and sending them to mexico. :roll:

Seeing as you quoted me on the initial point, when and where did I make any such claim?
 
So just give the guy a couple of bucks. Or send the paid soldiers in.

I think you missed my point. Teh guy in the house can't be bought and since he's fighting for his family, he'll be a much fiercer fighter.

Legal or illegal I think they would get them.

Exactly, so why deprive law-abiding citizens the chance to have guns to defend themselves?
 
Exactly, so why deprive law-abiding citizens the chance to have guns to defend themselves?
A better question:
How does crime in Mexico translate into cause to violate the Constitutional rights of Americans?
 
I think you missed my point. Teh guy in the house can't be bought and since he's fighting for his family, he'll be a much fiercer fighter.

I really do not think it is that much of a threat to a ruthless cold blooded professional cartel soldier.


Exactly, so why deprive law-abiding citizens the chance to have guns to defend themselves?

I dunna know?
 
I really do not think it is that much of a threat to a ruthless cold blooded professional cartel soldier.

:rofl

See, here is one of the great beauties of firearms. You do not have to be a 'cold-blooded professional soldier' to use them effectively. You don't have to be a young well-conditioned athlete with years of mixed martial arts training.

A reasonable amount of determination, and the knowlege that the front post should be centered in the rear notch a hair under the desired impact point, is a good enough start on being a dangerous man.

Sure, the pro knows a lot more: from trigger control to tactics; proper use of movement and cover; malfunction drills and mag changeouts, and so on. BUT any pro will tell you that a man or woman with the will to stand and shoot, and the basic ability to aim, IS dangerous.

If you've ever been "downrange", you may have heard this phrase: "It's not the bullet with your name on it to be scared of, its all the ones marked to whom it may concern."

Now, if the threatened peasant has a couple-three neighbors with guns, guts and grit (and the aforementioned knowlege of how to aim), the singular "cold pro" could easily be in trouble. Especially if he doesn't know they're gunning for him.

Anyway, all that is tactical considerations. The fundamental issue here is, Mexico's problems will not be solved by reinstating the AWB in America.

G.
 
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In fact, let me expand on this theme just a little.

Sergio Leone made the so-called "spaghetti Westerns", or Spanish made movies about the American West circa 1870-1890. It's considered a classic genre of movies, loved or hated depending on one's tastes.

I never cared for them much, for one primary reason: Sergio never understood the frontier West, and the relative equality of an armed society. Sergio came from a tradition of rulers and peasants: A medieval knight, "raised to arms", in full plate atop an armored warhorse, could practically put down a village-sized peasant uprising by himself, since the peasants had little in the way of weaponry that could affect him. Sergio's Westerns included outlaws and bounty hunters who were so superhumanly skilled with firearms that they were beyond the law, and the common people cowered when they walked by.

Contrast this to reality: the infamous James-Younger gang attempted that daylight bank robbery in --Missouri?? wherever--- and got shot to pieces by shopkeepers, blacksmiths, clerks and other townsfolk.

A few 'common folks' with guns, some guts and grit, and basic skill in shooting, can kill the crap out of a solo gunfighter in a straight-up fight.

There's a saying (I don't really approve of it but it does illustrate the point): "God created men equal...Sam Colt made them equal."

The reason Mexico has strict gun laws, is because it is run by the wealthy/powerful families, who control the gov't/police/army, and the peons are exploited like peasants...and if the peons had guns, it might not stay that way.

G.
 
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Uhmm they were reporting what President Felipe Calderon of Mexico and the U.S. State Department said:



How does reporting what others said make the media liars?
Has the media shown these statements to be true?Surely if they were unbiased as they claimed they were they would have at least done a story on which of these stores are selling "illegal" weapons to non citizens.It seems that by helping to spread the lie they themselves are also lying.
 
So what. Are people selling guns illegally? (US LAW) if so prosecute them.



But to suggest we need to restrict the constitutional rights of Americans because of thier problem is asinine.

I agree.Crime in Mexico is Mexico's problem. If they want to stop weapons from the US being smuggled they could secure their side of the damn border. What next are they going to ban or severely restrict the right to protest because some terrorist sympathizers in Europe or the middle east decided to riot.Maybe they'll ban or severely restrict freedom of religion because of some scumbags in the middle east who decided to blow themselves up to murder innocent civilians.
 
How does reporting what others said make the media liars?

They're either liars, amateurs, or lazy. You choose.

Whenever I see a news article describing so-called assault weapons as "high powered", it's an instant clue that the writer knows absolutely nothing about guns.

Military rifles are not high powered. Most are not even suitable for deer hunting because the rounds they fire are not big or powerful enough to make a clean kill. The only thing that makes these guns "powerful" is that magazines are available to enable them to shoot a lot of rounds before reloading is required.

Given the choice, I'd much rather be shot by an AK-47 than a 7mm mag deer rifle.
 
Are you suggesting that if the general populace were armed some how the problem of gun violence would be cured? How would this work? Would the general pop form vigilante gangs?
It would at least mean they'd have some hope of fighting back. All the ban does is deprive the law-abiding from any kind of defence. This is an age old problem.
 
They're either liars, amateurs, or lazy. You choose.

Whenever I see a news article describing so-called assault weapons as "high powered", it's an instant clue that the writer knows absolutely nothing about guns.

Military rifles are not high powered. Most are not even suitable for deer hunting because the rounds they fire are not big or powerful enough to make a clean kill. The only thing that makes these guns "powerful" is that magazines are available to enable them to shoot a lot of rounds before reloading is required.

Given the choice, I'd much rather be shot by an AK-47 than a 7mm mag deer rifle.

I would have to say they are liars who are exploiting the ignorance of others in order to fuel their anti-2nd amendment agenda. They spread this lie that we are somehow arming drug cartels with our lack of anti-constitutional laws and it gives the anti-constitutionalists in office more fuel they need to take away or severely restrict our rights by pretending that we should somehow give a **** about Mexico's crime problem.Mexico doesn't give a **** about our crime problem,most of the 20 million plus criminals who are here illegally in this country are from Mexico.
 
Just curious but do you have any evidence to the contrary of what was reported?

Why yes, I do...

The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

Why do you suppose the Clinton State Department misrepresented that 90% figure?
 
lol, facts are inconvenient.
Hmm.
Why isnt the media in general reporting on this willfull misrepresentation by The Obama administration?
 
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