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Thread: Beyond AIG: A Bill to let Big Government Set Your Salary

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    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    This is the Obama Change, you can only hope for success(with government support of course), and failure is too painful to consider.
    Yes, but Obama's policies can only lead to greater and more systemic failure. When ever there's a failure, intelligent people are forced to ask themselves "How could I have done that better?" Perhaps a little Obamania is just what this country needs. I can only hope that it doesn't become so ingrained and systemic that it leads to our failure as a nation.

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    With a 40% wage anchor dragging them down, it's hard to compete.
    It's hard to compete in general without innovation like GM has done. They lag in quality, safety, and innovation.

    The corporate decisions in GM are what caused it to fail.

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's hard to compete in general without innovation like GM has done. They lag in quality, safety, and innovation.

    The corporate decisions in GM are what caused it to fail.
    You sure it's not paying the janitor $70k a year to mop the floor?

    Or the fender installer guy getting close to six figures, because he operates a little machine that screws bolts into a car body all day?

    How about the GM forklift driver that makes $103k a year?

    GEE. While I don't discount the fact that the CEOs bare a lot of the blame for the failure of their companies... it's not like they didn't have help from the UAW.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    You sure it's not paying the janitor $70k a year to mop the floor?
    Which janitor is that?

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Which janitor is that?
    *sigh* the sarcasm.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's hard to compete in general without innovation like GM has done. They lag in quality, safety, and innovation.

    The corporate decisions in GM are what caused it to fail.
    The worst corporate decision they ever made was the decision to stop specializing in manufacturing automobiles and go into the finance market (GMAC). This kind of scope creep will kill any company.

    You can't ignore the other factors though. The cost of labor in America is very high and the UAW is out of control. Unions in and of themselves are not a bad thing. They actually have some advantages. The problem is when they grow large enough to extort an entire industry and make demands that are not only not in the best interest of the company, but contrary to their own self interest.

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    You can't ignore the other factors though. The cost of labor in America is very high and the UAW is out of control. Unions in and of themselves are not a bad thing. They actually have some advantages. The problem is when they grow large enough to extort an entire industry and make demands that are not only not in the best interest of the company, but contrary to their own self interest.
    It's funny though, there are plenty of other jobs out there that have just as high pay and yet the companies do just fine.

    Sorry, but poor management has been the ultimate downfall of the auto industries.

    The only thing I agree with most conservatives on is that the bailouts should not have happened. Not for the banks and not for the auto industry.

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It's funny though, there are plenty of other jobs out there that have just as high pay and yet the companies do just fine.
    Give me an example of an industry with a monopolistic union as pervasive as the UAW that is doing "just fine."

    Sorry, but poor management has been the ultimate downfall of the auto industries.
    Sorry, you're ignoring the underlying factors upon which the demise of the American automobile industry has been predicted since I was in grade school at least.

    The only thing I agree with most conservatives on is that the bailouts should not have happened. Not for the banks and not for the auto industry.
    True, but we need union reform to preserve the American auto industry. See this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...ve-unions.html

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Give me an example of an industry with a monopolistic union as pervasive as the UAW that is doing "just fine."



    Sorry, you're ignoring the underlying factors upon which the demise of the American automobile industry has been predicted since I was in grade school at least.



    True, but we need union reform to preserve the American auto industry. See this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...ve-unions.html
    Unions are a problem yes, but pointing to unions and saying they are the problem while giving management a pass is simply ridiculous.

    The simple fact is if they made a good product the unions wouldn't matter very much.

    Look at the main complaints with the American Auto Industry. For the most part not on par with safety, quality, or reliability.

    If you make a bad product, people will not buy it. The American auto industry used to be a leader in innovation, now it simply copies what is out there and copies it poorly for the most part.

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    Re: Beyond AIG: A bill to let Big Government set your salary

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Unions are a problem yes, but pointing to unions and saying they are the problem while giving management a pass is simply ridiculous.
    There's nothing wrong with unions. There is a huge problem with our anti-competitive, state sanctioned unions in America. Check out the thread. Read the article.

    The simple fact is if they made a good product the unions wouldn't matter very much.

    Look at the main complaints with the American Auto Industry. For the most part not on par with safety, quality, or reliability.

    If you make a bad product, people will not buy it. The American auto industry used to be a leader in innovation, now it simply copies what is out there and copies it poorly for the most part.
    Companies must compete on cost, if US automakers are to start producing products in which customers are interested, they must be flexible and efficient. Our union system is bloated and inefficient by default. The UAW's state-sanctioned monopoly allows them to make unrealistic demands which divert funds from business operations. Usually the first thing a company will ditch to remain price competitive is R&D.

    I'm not going to deny that the management at GM and Chrysler have made some poor business decisions. I'm just saying it's not the only problem.
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 04-01-09 at 09:06 PM.

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