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Thread: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So you are suggesting it is America's fault?
    No. I am saying that you can't blame it all on communism, as there are other factors.

    Learn to read and not skim. Maybe you'll get the point next time.

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So you are suggesting it is America's fault?
    The cubans deserve to suffer under the embargos. Teaches there damn government a good lesson; destroy communism and bring money to your people or continue living under poverty. I wouldnt have said they deserve it had those idiots not entertained the idea of Russian missiles in Cuba to destroy America not so long ago. Its not like its a different administration since then anyway; its the Castro brothers, all the same ****.
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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    No. I am saying that you can't blame it all on communism, as there are other factors.

    Learn to read and not skim. Maybe you'll get the point next time.



    "People don't have the luxuries that we do here, simply because of the embargo system. When you walk down the street there, there are cars all over the place, but none of them have fuel to run. Maybe if the embargo were lifted, people would live better, communism or no communism."



    So you didn't blame the us right here?
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    "People don't have the luxuries that we do here, simply because of the embargo system. When you walk down the street there, there are cars all over the place, but none of them have fuel to run. Maybe if the embargo were lifted, people would live better, communism or no communism."

    So you didn't blame the us right here?
    The embargo had a lot to do with Cuban's change in industry development. The U.S. provided most of Cuba's food prior to the embargo. Once the embargo began, the population had to switch to rations, which in turn limited national productivity. The U.S. also refuses to send medical supplies, which results in higher mortality rates even with the most basic of diseases.

    Even Canada cannot send companies there to establish business, because the U.S. embargo rules also punish foreign companies that ignore the U.S. hegemony in this department.

    Basically... the embargo is in place because Cuba is the only Communist nation to oust the United States. Even during Bush's term, some senators wanted to lift the travel bans and begin some light trade, but Bush vetoed the legislation. So... there you have it.

    If you want Cuba's livelihood to improve, then your country needs to start exporting to it. It's that simple. You can only blame Communism so much. It's going to remain Communist even after the Castro brothers are gone, you can bet on it. Rather than hold a grudge, it makes much more sense to begin trade.

    The U.S. trades with China... I don't see why Cuba is such a big deal in modern times.

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I'm not claiming that it's so great that people would never want to leave. People don't have the luxuries that we do here, simply because of the embargo system. When you walk down the street there, there are cars all over the place, but none of them have fuel to run. Maybe if the embargo were lifted, people would live better, communism or no communism.

    It's not so black and white that you can blame all of its poverty on communism. The U.S. still made the choice to place the embargo, which is in turn hurting the Cuban people. All of the systems they have there now are designed to operate with limited resources and long-term sustainability. I think it's rather remarkable that they fair so well.

    Of course, none of you can pay a visit to see how interesting a country it is. Instead, you have to sit in the U.S. and continue to spoonfed the usual propaganda about how everyone there is suffering terribly...

    The people who want to leave either aspire to a Western way of living (more luxuries, more waste, etc.), are impoverished to such a degree that the government there cannot help them (i.e. they have huge families or require medical care that Cuban resources cannot provide), or they simply want to see the world.
    Everywhere there is communism, it seems there is a flow of people trying to exit the communist states, towards the free states. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about communism and its actual functionality.

    Besides, I thought Cuba had world class healthcare that outstriped the American system by a mile, and yet the government cannot afford to help large, impoverished families? Nobody floats on a raft, in the open seas, to "simply see the world".
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Besides, I thought Cuba had world class healthcare that outstriped the American system by a mile, and yet the government cannot afford to help large, impoverished families? Nobody floats on a raft, in the open seas, to "simply see the world".
    Kind of an irrelevant argument there. Just because they may have better health care, doesn't mean they have an overall better life.

    If you think about it, the best interest of a communist state is to keep people alive so they can work for the state. That doesn't mean they have better lives though. The reason people leave Cuba is for the whole Quality of Life vs. the Quantity of Life issue.

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Everywhere there is communism, it seems there is a flow of people trying to exit the communist states, towards the free states. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about communism and its actual functionality.
    What, the former USSR states? Yeah... because that was real Communism.

    Do you include China in that assessment? 1.4 billion people are living under Communism right now, and those who can afford to leave usually stay.

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Besides, I thought Cuba had world class healthcare that outstriped the American system by a mile, and yet the government cannot afford to help large, impoverished families? Nobody floats on a raft, in the open seas, to "simply see the world".
    They have world class health care expertise which is the reason why many doctors, including myself, go there to learn about Western modalities of treatment. The resources they do have are shared, and their drugs are extraordinarily cheap (referenced by the fact that many Western nations outsource from Cuba). What they lack is modern technology, particularly for diagnostics and surgery, as well as laboratory facilities. All of their doctors are trained in how to use these systems, but the embargo prevents the tech. from being imported. Even willing nations who would gladly sell it to them are bullied into not doing so by the U.S.

    I'm telling you, the embargo is the root of all evil in that country. The propaganda wheel can spin the story all it wants in the U.S., but it simply isn't true.

    The government cannot afford to help large families because of the rationing system. Also, people leave because they do not like their work assignments, and everyone has one in order to sustain the society. People are assigned to work sectors based on job need, and although the systems there are well-oiled given the lack of resources, not everyone wants the jobs that they get. But due to the embargo, skilled labour cannot be imported, so Cubans must always fill the job posts. This is the number one reason why Cubans are not allowed to leave. If they were, the micro-economy would collapse.

    So... most of the "evils" of communism and the sufferings that people go through as espoused by the U.S. propaganda machine are actually due to the embargo, either directly or indirectly.

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The reason people leave Cuba is for the whole Quality of Life vs. the Quantity of Life issue.
    Yeah, they get the better deal on both of those here, than they do there.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    What, the former USSR states? Yeah... because that was real Communism.

    Do you include China in that assessment? 1.4 billion people are living under Communism right now, and those who can afford to leave usually stay.

    .
    I don't know, alot of Hmong immigrants come to this country, and they come from areas within China as well, and every single damn one of them I've known(and I've known many since alot of them immigrated into the area I used to live in) is glad they are here, and not there. Others from Vietnam immigrated here as well, to escape their communist regimes.

    We should always penalize communism, because people shouldn't have to work for the state, if they don't want to. We should never embrace cultures that stamp out individualism like that, to include China.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Biden: No change on Cuban Policy

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I don't know, alot of Hmong immigrants come to this country, and they come from areas within China as well, and every single damn one of them I've known(and I've known many since alot of them immigrated into the area I used to live in) is glad they are here, and not there. Others from Vietnam immigrated here as well, to escape their communist regimes.

    We should always penalize communism, because people shouldn't have to work for the state, if they don't want to. We should never embrace cultures that stamp out individualism like that, to include China.
    Yet the U.S. trades with China and Vietnam, so why are they so exceptional and Cuba, a tiny island nation, isn't? I still think it's a vengeance thing for what was done in the past, and has little to do with political ideology anymore. Clearly it's okay to trade with some Communist states but not with others. At the heart of it is not Communism vs. Democracy anymore.

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