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Thread: Call for higher circumcision rate

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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Female circumcision removes the functionality of the genitals. It is a total excision of the clitorus for the express purpose of stopping pleasure from sex.

    Male circumcision does no such damage to sexual functions and even has hygeine benefits.
    It decreases the sensitivity of the glans. FAIL

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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Sorry, you can apply emotionally charged rhetoric to the debate despite it being patently false and idiotic as the day is long, but male circumcision is a medical procedure that falls outside the accepted definition of mutilation.
    To be honest with you Jallman, when you define mutilation in its absolute sense, you'll notice a kind of mutilation does infact take place during surgery. Whats funny about it though, is that everytime i put a case against others, in terms of politics and biology (be it abortion or this), the opposition likes to go off and use a word that is suitable for the situation but totally not the case and far more dramatic because it gives strength to a weak opinion. For example, Pro-Lifers like to say baby killers instead of the word abortion, im not saying this opinion is wrong, but the word is uneccessary and dramatic and is just a political tool. The argument against circumcision, "mutilating men". In the sense of a word, a mutilation is taking place, but the word is dramatic and uneccessary and again is a political tool for furthering the oppositions case. I had surgery on my toe today. I should not have got it done, because its mutilation. Oh noo!! Yet they refuse to use the word mutilation in other surgeries where the concept is the same: cutting up, extracting, ie heart transplants, etc. The things they agree with is suprisingly not mutilation though the surgerical concept is the same.
    Pressing it as such only exposes your inability to form a coherent and rational argument so you resort to hyperbole and hysterics.
    Exactly.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    It decreases the sensitivity of the glans. FAIL
    Minimally. And you have managed to outweigh a little extra sexual pleasure with hygiene and safe sex, and disease transmission. At least i know now where your brain is. Now thats a fail.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, you did not refute them. You showed that there are lower STD rates in other countries that happen to practice circumcision less. That does not refute anything. You need to show causation, not just correlation.
    Nor have you refuted that proper cleaning and condom use are as or more effective and don't require surgery which makes them a better alternative.


    I saw them. I also pointed out that most on that list were not applicable to humans because we wear clothing that performs the same functions.

    I don't care about blood and lymph vessels nor do I care about nerves. Those structures do not determine usefulness of a flap of skin.
    None of that is fact however and little more than your personal opinion. Not to mention that you are wrong in those opinions.

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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    It decreases the sensitivity of the glans. FAIL
    Not in any sexually impairing way. FAIL.

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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Nor have you refuted that proper cleaning and condom use are as or more effective and don't require surgery which makes them a better alternative.
    I am not trying to refute that condom use is more effective than circumcision. Whether condom use is better is not the issue at hand. The issue is whether circumcision has the health benefit of decreasing STD transmission. I would be very interested to see you demonstrate where I have advocated circumcision as an alternative to condom use because as far as I recall, I haven't made any such claim, nor would I.

    None of that is fact however and little more than your personal opinion. Not to mention that you are wrong in those opinions.
    Uh, no. It is a fact that the foreskin serves a protective function that is made obsolete by the fact that we where clothing.

    And you still FAIL at demonstrating where I have been wrong. Speak to the studies or fold because that is all that is left for you to do.

    Somehow, I doubt you'll make the intelligent argument based on the history of this thread.

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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Minimally. And you have managed to outweigh a little extra sexual pleasure with hygiene and safe sex, and disease transmission. At least i know now where your brain is. Now thats a fail.
    Further, I highly doubt he can show any study that shows circumcised men are impaired sexually or seek out sexual pleasure than their uncircumcised counterparts.

    It's all pure conjecture and baseless opinion on his part. Like always.

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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Just because you refuse to accept the refutation doesn't mean it hasn't been made. The refutation is:
    1) proper cleaning practices are just as effective for hygiene
    2) Condom use is more effective at reducing STDs
    That's not refutation. That's a subject change.

    3) Elective surgery on an infant which will permanently disfigure it, is plainly wrong as evidenced by the fact that other such "preventive" surgeries are prohibited.
    And a bunch of hysterical and subjective nonsense along with an outright lie.

    4) Doctors are not supposed to perform unnecessary surgeries especially when a less invasive alternative is as or more effective.
    Another outright lie as evidenced by the fact that we have elective cosmetic surgery right.

    5) it is a religious practice that has been defended by some of the medical community out of tradition and excused as something to do with hygiene.
    And more irrelevant "Jebus knocked me down and took my lunch money" nonsense because no one here is making a religious argument except you.

    What's the pro? Hygiene and aesthetics?
    And decrease STD transmission.

    Oh and your use of latin, because someone else used it doesn't add to your argument, mostly because it's incorrect anyway.
    Oh and your lack of understanding of how logical fallacies apply doesn't take anything away from my argument, mostly because you are wrong anyway.

    And yet you bring up other body parts at your whim. This makes you a hypocrite... in yet another thread.
    I only did in response to a specific question asking "what other body parts". And you calling me a hypocrite...ad hom. A reported ad hom at that.

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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Further, I highly doubt he can show any study that shows circumcised men are impaired sexually or seek out sexual pleasure than their uncircumcised counterparts.

    It's all pure conjecture and baseless opinion on his part. Like always.
    Sexually Impaired? Pathetic, another dramatic nonsense term to further his weak case.

    A) Seeking sexual pleasure and getting horny is dictated by testosterone releases and is of no relation to the nerve endings.

    B) Amount of pleasure recieved during sex is of relation to the nerve endings. Our penis and glands however contain 10's of million of nerve endings, which is why when the foreskin is removed, and approx 100,000 nerve endings as a result, it makes little to absolutely no noticable difference during sex. As i have stated already, biologically speaking, loosing 100,000 nerve endings is nothing. It also scares me that people think more of there sexual pleasure then the safety of others and there own health. I think its pretty selfish, especially because you have nothing to loose.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 06-24-09 at 02:08 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  10. #520
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    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Studies disagree with you. STD transmission rate is reduced by 50% in circumcised males.

    Just because one practice is more effective, the effectiveness of the other practice is not negated. Try logic.
    Apparently you should try logic. It is illogical to perform surgery when not necessary. If two things accomplish similar results (circumcision doesn't even produce similar results but, for the sake of argument) then the less invasive one should logically be preferred.

    I know you need to use ad homs such as "obsession with removing foreskins" to feel like you are making a point, but I assure you, it's not helping your argument.
    You're the queen of ad homs in this thread... was that an ad hom?

    An attempt to vilify rather than rationally debate the points is noticed.
    Yes, we all see you doing it, no need to point it out.

    Now moving on, of the functions you listed, the majority were for protective purposes. Those same purposes are achieved by the wearing of clothing rendering the usefulness of the foreskin void.
    Do you have any proof that this is true or are you just making it up? The sensitivity of the glans on the head of the penis are lessened by friction against clothing. FAIL

    I also don't care about the size of the foreskin on an adult male. Size of the foreskin does not translate into usefulness.
    No but it shows the amount of skin being removed is rather large, so it's not just a little piece of useless skin. The skin is the largest organ an no part of it is without usefulness.

    1. Epithelial Tissue - The cells of epithelial tissue pack tightly together and form continuous sheets that serve as linings in different parts of the body. Epithelial tissue serve as membranes lining organs and helping to keep the body's organs separate, in place and protected. Some examples of epithelial tissue are the outer layer of the skin, the inside of the mouth and stomach, and the tissue surrounding the body's organs.
    2. Connective Tissue - There are many types of connective tissue in the body. Generally speaking, connective tissue adds support and structure to the body. Most types of connective tissue contain fibrous strands of the protein collagen that add strength to connective tissue. Some examples of connective tissue include the inner layers of skin, tendons, ligaments, cartilage, bone and fat tissue. In addition to these more recognizable forms of connective tissue, blood is also considered a form of connective tissue.
    3. Muscle Tissue - Muscle tissue is a specialized tissue that can contract. Muscle tissue contains the specialized proteins actin and myosin that slide past one another and allow movement. Examples of muscle tissue are contained in the muscles throughout your body.
    4. Nerve Tissue - Nerve tissue contains two types of cells: neurons and glial cells. Nerve tissue has the ability to generate and conduct electrical signals in the body. These electrical messages are managed by nerve tissue in the brain and transmitted down the spinal cord to the body.
    Basic Anatomy - Organs & Organ Systems

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