Page 49 of 61 FirstFirst ... 39474849505159 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 603

Thread: Call for higher circumcision rate

  1. #481
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian-bloke View Post
    they are faulty because they use Africa where poverty, and lack of modern facilities, lack of education and superstitions and diseases like malaria contribute to the spread of STDs. poverty breeds diseases that's common sense
    What specific methodology is faulty? And if all the subjects have the same controls and come from the same sample pool, the other issues don't matter, especially if the variable being questioned is the only variable between the control and the test group.

    So tell me, what added variables were there between the control and the test groups. Specific methodology issues, please.

  2. #482
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Last Seen
    06-26-11 @ 06:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    119

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    What specific methodology is faulty? And if all the subjects have the same controls and come from the same sample pool, the other issues don't matter, especially if the variable being questioned is the only variable between the control and the test group.

    So tell me, what added variables were there between the control and the test groups. Specific methodology issues, please.

    i already pored the links which show the studies are flawed

  3. #483
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian-bloke View Post
    i already pored the links which show the studies are flawed
    No, you provided a link to an agenda driven page and it may have, somewhere in there, given an argument for the studies being flawed. However, I'm not mining the page for a blurb that may or may not make a point for you. That's up to you to show in support of your argument.

    And nothing I saw on that page shows a problem with the methodology of the study. If you can point me to a specific section of the page which does, I will be happy to read it.

  4. #484
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Last Seen
    06-26-11 @ 06:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    119

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    from one of the links

    Some factors casting doubt on the findings:

    1. A summary of the study includes this:

    Inclusion criteria:
    ...
    Consenting to avoid sexual contact (except with condom protection) during the 6 weeks following the medicalized circumcision
    The experimental (circumcised) men, but not the control group (left intact), were told:

    When you are circumcised you will be asked to have no sexual contact in the 6 weeks after surgery. To have sexual contact before your skin of your penis is completely healed, could lead to infection if your partner is infected with a sexually transmitted disease. It could also be painful and lead to bleeding. If you desire to have sexual contact in the 6 weeks after surgery, despite our recommendation, it is absolutely essential that your (sic) use a condom.
    So:
    1. The circumcised experimental group, but not the intact control group, got into the HABIT of using condoms
    2. They learnt HOW to use condoms
    3. They had to make sure they HAD condoms (which are in scandalously short supply in South Africa), and
    4. last but not least, they were PROTECTED by condoms.

  5. #485
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian-bloke View Post
    from one of the links
    That is complete and utter bull****.

    A) There needs to be proof positive that condom use was not known before the circumcision.

    AND

    B) That condom use became the habit once the healing process was completed.

    Also, there needs to be proof that condoms were made more available following the 6 weeks after the healing time passed for the circumcised men only and that protection by condoms was continued beyond the healing and the start of the study.

    So no, this is all conjecture with no methodology issue involved. If anything, the six week healing period with condom protection maintained the control at the start of the study by eliminating infection due to the wounds.

    Is there anything else?

  6. #486
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Last Seen
    06-26-11 @ 06:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    119

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Dr Petra Boynton I Blog I More concerns raised about the HIV/Circumcision research

    January 7, 2007
    More concerns raised about the HIV/Circumcision research

    You may remember before Christmas there was a lot of media attention to new research from Africa that suggested men who had been circumcised had lower HIV rates than men who had not undergone this procedure. I had a few questions about the research - particularly why it was a halted trial that went straight to media rather than being published anywhere.

    Other colleagues working in the area of HIV have raised more specific concerns about the HIV/Circumcision research and the issues it raises. In particular there are worries that a population that’s not particularly health literate may interpret the study as circumcision gives immunity from HIV, and also that this research doesn’t include the health of women.

    One such colleague, David Gisselquist*, has provided some thoughtful analysis of this latest research. He has kindly allowed me to reproduce his views on the HIV/Circumcision trial here:

    “Three prospective studies report that circumcision protects African men from sexual acquisition of HIV. What is going on is not so clear. If circumcision is so protective, then why do CIRCUMCISED men in 6 of 10 African countries have HIGHER HIV prevalence than uncircumcised men in Demographic and Health Surveys (see attached table)? If circumcision protects men from sexual acquistion of HIV (and that may be so), then data on HIV prevalence suggests that most HIV in men in Africa is coming from something else.

    Table showing HIV prevalence and circumcision





  7. #487
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian-bloke View Post
    If circumcision is so protective, then why do CIRCUMCISED men in 6 of 10 African countries have HIGHER HIV prevalence than uncircumcised men in Demographic and Health Surveys (see attached table)?
    There are only 10 African countries now? Who knew!
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  8. #488
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian-bloke View Post
    Dr Petra Boynton I Blog I More concerns raised about the HIV/Circumcision research

    January 7, 2007
    More concerns raised about the HIV/Circumcision research

    You may remember before Christmas there was a lot of media attention to new research from Africa that suggested men who had been circumcised had lower HIV rates than men who had not undergone this procedure. I had a few questions about the research - particularly why it was a halted trial that went straight to media rather than being published anywhere.

    Other colleagues working in the area of HIV have raised more specific concerns about the HIV/Circumcision research and the issues it raises. In particular there are worries that a population that’s not particularly health literate may interpret the study as circumcision gives immunity from HIV, and also that this research doesn’t include the health of women.

    One such colleague, David Gisselquist*, has provided some thoughtful analysis of this latest research. He has kindly allowed me to reproduce his views on the HIV/Circumcision trial here:

    “Three prospective studies report that circumcision protects African men from sexual acquisition of HIV. What is going on is not so clear. If circumcision is so protective, then why do CIRCUMCISED men in 6 of 10 African countries have HIGHER HIV prevalence than uncircumcised men in Demographic and Health Surveys (see attached table)? If circumcision protects men from sexual acquistion of HIV (and that may be so), then data on HIV prevalence suggests that most HIV in men in Africa is coming from something else.

    Table showing HIV prevalence and circumcision




    This being a blog and not a legitimate reference, aside, the blog makes a deceptive statement even in its premise. The study was published in two journals. Only one journal refused to publish it and that was not for methodology reasons, it was for ethics questions about not disclosing HIV status to newly infected patients.

    So right at the onset, the blog is suspect.

    Secondly, the comparison also follows the same logical fallacy that you attempted.

    post hoc ergo propter hoc

    The blog's analysis attempts to argue causation where it can barely make a case for correlation. It fails to point out cultural issues when it draws attention to women having high rates of infection such as the "rape a virgin to cure AIDS" phenomenon seen in those countries. There is still no attack on the methodology of the study because it doesn't attack the core of what makes a study legitimate or not: whether there are proper controls and variables being studied.

    It's all conjecture as to what the numbers mean outside the study but it does not negate the fact that statistically, circumcision shows a 65% (that's from your source so we'll go with that number from here on ) drop in HIV infection rate over a given period of time.

  9. #489
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Last Seen
    06-26-11 @ 06:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    119

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    circumcision does not reduce the chances of getting HIV






    corrected a typo
    Last edited by Canadian-bloke; 06-23-09 at 08:21 PM.

  10. #490
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    02-16-11 @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    36,915
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Call for higher circumcision rate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian-bloke View Post
    circumcision does reduce the chances of getting HIV

    Why yes...yes it does. Thank you for confessing that.

Page 49 of 61 FirstFirst ... 39474849505159 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •