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Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting energy

Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

TheNextEra said:
Yes, by pointing out the FACT, they can do these scans without a warrant means I hate America. :roll:

Truth Detector you are a partisan hack at best and a fascist at worst. You and your ilk are the ones that truly hate America.

Anyone that doesn't agree with you, you label them as America Haters while you get all your cues from Rush Limbaugh like a good Rushbot.

You should rename yourself to Lie Spreader is more like it, because you aren't interested in the truth, that is FACT.
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Hey, care to not take the easy way out and actually address the three posters that pointed out that your hyperbolic post was wrong with actual facts rather than going on a rant about TD and ignoring them?

Cause, getting back to your post, it was full of hyperbolic crap insinuating things that were frankly not true as was shown by Osirus's post.
 
Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

Truth Detector said:
What part of requirement of obtaining a warrant do you NOT comprehend? Do you think the DEA can "kick your door in" whenever it wants as NextEra stated?

How is his diatribe in any way connected to the thread topic? Last time I looked, this was about Government spying on LAW ABIDING citizens to cite them for energy wasting, not the egitimate law enforcement to catch pot growers operating OUTSIDE of our laws using WARRANTS to do their job.
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It is connected, in both cases someone is arbitrarily deciding how much energy a household should be using, the UK instance is worse, because they are stripping liberty from the law abiding, that much is obvious, however, a warrant was obtained for a search of a house using invasive tactics, which should scare anyone who believes in property rights and due process of law.
 
Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

A long, long time ago someone smart said something to the effect, "all technologies will eventually find their way in to the hands of govenrments to use against the people".
Unfortuneately, I don't recall who said it but it was obviously a wise person.
There is virtually no end to this.
 
Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

LaMidRighter said:
It is connected, in both cases someone is arbitrarily deciding how much energy a household should be using, the UK instance is worse, because they are stripping liberty from the law abiding, that much is obvious, however, a warrant was obtained for a search of a house using invasive tactics, which should scare anyone who believes in property rights and due process of law.
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Good, we are in partial agreement here. But your statement, "in both cases someone is arbitrarily deciding how much energy a household should be using," is incorrect.

The example used by NextEra was not a case where someone "arbitrarily" decided how much energy households "should" be using, it was a case where people under suspicion for illicit drugs had been targeted and then a "warrant" obtained to search the house for illicit drugs after thermal signatures suggested unusual activity was indeed occurring within the house.

The Supreme Court case you cited CORRECTLY asserts that a warrant should be obtained PRIOR to using these thermal sensors against "suspects" in ADDITION to warrants to search the "suspects" house.

At least that is how I read it and is in no way similar to the case that is the thread topic which is a blatant abuse of a right to privacy for "green" environmental extremism.
 
Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

LaMidRighter said:
I'll back him on this, I have heard of this from other personal sources over the last couple of years, don't exactly have a link readily at hand.
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I'm not saying that nothing remotely like this happens, but what I am saying is that I bet there are a lot more things going on behind the scenes that either you or the people you heard this from are not privy to.

TheNextEra said:
Exactly what are you trying to refute? They do use thermal sensors to pick up the heat lamps used for pot growing houses. Once detected they can use that information to get a warrant. Even if you aren't growing pot, the fact that the thermal sensors pick it up is enough for a warrant.
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No, they can't. You're just plain wrong, as indicated numerous times in this thread.

Where, as here, the Government uses a device that is not in general public use, to explore details of a private home that would previously have been unknowable without physical intrusion, the surveillance is a Fourth Amendment "search," and is presumptively unreasonable without a warrant
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Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

LaMidRighter said:
Nope, they used records of energy use to obtain said warrant to peek into someone's house, if I'm using more energy it is not surveillance in the true sense as using electricity is still a legitimate action, now, if they had other reasonable cause such as whistleblowers or something concrete, then there would be a warrantable cause.
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And there were other sources involved. Everyone keeps on talking like the government was just walking down the street, imaging houses. That's not at all what happened:

In 1991 Agent William Elliott of the United States Department of the Interior came to suspect that marijuana was being grown in the home belonging to petitioner Danny Kyllo, part of a triplex on Rhododendron Drive in Florence, Oregon. Indoor marijuana growth typically requires high-intensity lamps. In order to determine whether an amount of heat was emanating from petitioner's home consistent with the use of such lamps, at 3:20 a.m. on January 16, 1992, Agent Elliott and Dan Haas used an Agema Thermovision 210 thermal imager to scan the triplex. Thermal imagers detect infrared radiation, which virtually all objects emit but which is not visible to the naked eye. The imager converts radiation into images based on relative warmth--black is cool, white is hot, shades of gray connote relative differences; in that respect, it operates somewhat like a video camera showing heat images. The scan of Kyllo's home took only a few minutes and was performed from the passenger seat of Agent Elliott's vehicle across the street from the front of the house and also from the street in back of the house. The scan showed that the roof over the garage and a side wall of petitioner's home were relatively hot compared to the rest of the home and substantially warmer than neighboring homes in the triplex. Agent Elliott concluded that petitioner was using halide lights to grow marijuana in his house, which indeed he was. Based on tips from informants, utility bills, and the thermal imaging, a Federal Magistrate Judge issued a warrant authorizing a search of petitioner's home, and the agents found an indoor growing operation involving more than 100 plants.
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And the court STILL held that it wasn't permissible.
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Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

Back in the 80's a pot growing opertion got discovered in Idaho, based on utility bills only. It made the Idaho Falls Post Register newspaper....
Electric Utility contacted the owner and said that his bills are 10 times normal, owner says he rented the place out to a young couple but he would check into it....
Long story short, a hydroponic pot farm was growing in the basement....
I don't think a warrant was needed....
 
Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

Truth Detector said:
Good, we are in partial agreement here. But your statement, "in both cases someone is arbitrarily deciding how much energy a household should be using," is incorrect.

The example used by NextEra was not a case where someone "arbitrarily" decided how much energy households "should" be using, it was a case where people under suspicion for illicit drugs had been targeted and then a "warrant" obtained to search the house for illicit drugs after thermal signatures suggested unusual activity was indeed occurring within the house.
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I'm okay with a warrant for thermal tech usage if there were factors other than energy usage, to me it is no more a violation than tapping a phone to back up a case that has already been built by standard methods, if that's the case in this incident then no problem, I was under the impression that the authorities went specifically on the electric bill, which would be a gross violation of due process.

The Supreme Court case you cited CORRECTLY asserts that a warrant should be obtained PRIOR to using these thermal sensors against "suspects" in ADDITION to warrants to search the "suspects" house.
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Warrant issued on compelling evidence, absolutely, but never on a whim.

At least that is how I read it and is in no way similar to the case that is the thread topic which is a blatant abuse of a right to privacy for "green" environmental extremism.
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I can agree to that.
 
Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

UtahBill said:
Back in the 80's a pot growing opertion got discovered in Idaho, based on utility bills only. It made the Idaho Falls Post Register newspaper....
Electric Utility contacted the owner and said that his bills are 10 times normal, owner says he rented the place out to a young couple but he would check into it....
Long story short, a hydroponic pot farm was growing in the basement....
I don't think a warrant was needed....
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It doesn't sound like state action was involved. If the owner called the cops and told them, there's nothing wrong with that at all.
 
Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

RightinNYC said:
I'm not saying that nothing remotely like this happens, but what I am saying is that I bet there are a lot more things going on behind the scenes that either you or the people you heard this from are not privy to.
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That is quite possible, I can concede this point.



No, they can't. You're just plain wrong, as indicated numerous times in this thread.
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Understandable, but what authorities can't do versus what they do is a matter of which judge allows wiggle room.



RightinNYC said:
And there were other sources involved. Everyone keeps on talking like the government was just walking down the street, imaging houses. That's not at all what happened:



And the court STILL held that it wasn't permissible.
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If there were credible sources, it's a totally different story, still, the thermal imaging is overkill if a warrant has to be issued, at least in my opinion.

UtahBill said:
Back in the 80's a pot growing opertion got discovered in Idaho, based on utility bills only. It made the Idaho Falls Post Register newspaper....
Electric Utility contacted the owner and said that his bills are 10 times normal, owner says he rented the place out to a young couple but he would check into it....
Long story short, a hydroponic pot farm was growing in the basement....
I don't think a warrant was needed....
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A property owner retains right of search I believe and could grant authorities entrance, if that's the case, it's "plain view" and that'll hold up easily in court.
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