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Thread: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting energy

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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Ohh I know. I guess what gets me is that it is the local council doing it and not the DEA or some local police agency.
    I think it is wrong whether a council does it for energy conservation or the U.S. does it to find so called pot houses.

    The simple fact of the matter is in the U.S. if someone doesn't conservate energy like everyone else, the DEA has the AUTOMATIC WARRANT right to break down the door of any house that exhibits above normal energy conservation in search of pot growing houses.

    Let's say you are a house that likes things warm for your family way above average, the DEA can break down your door legally even though you aren't growing pot.

    How's that for a free America?

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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I think it is wrong whether a council does it for energy conservation or the U.S. does it to find so called pot houses.

    The simple fact of the matter is in the U.S. if someone doesn't conservate energy like everyone else, the DEA has the AUTOMATIC WARRANT right to break down the door of any house that exhibits above normal energy conservation in search of pot growing houses.

    Let's say you are a house that likes things warm for your family way above average, the DEA can break down your door legally even though you aren't growing pot.

    How's that for a free America?
    Yep, I forgot about that.

    I don't agree with the DEA or anyone spying, snooping or anything for that matter.

    What was particularly surprising is that a local governing body decided to do it and not a police force.

    If the city and mayor decided it be a good idea to spy on people, there would be absolute outrage here, probably violent.
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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If the city and mayor decided it be a good idea to spy on people, there would be absolute outrage here, probably violent.
    Honestly I think it is already done. All it takes is a group of people agreeing to break the law for whatever reason.

    The problem is oversight. Many agencies don't have sufficient oversight and are taken as they will operate within legal standards.

    Maybe I am pessimistic, but all it takes is a group to operate above the law to supersede this. What oversight is there? Or more importantly what is the manpower to oversight such a thing in every city?

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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Honestly I think it is already done. All it takes is a group of people agreeing to break the law for whatever reason.

    The problem is oversight. Many agencies don't have sufficient oversight and are taken as they will operate within legal standards.

    Maybe I am pessimistic, but all it takes is a group to operate above the law to supersede this. What oversight is there?
    Well with fly overs your supposed to own the air above your property to some degree.

    I'm sure the courts won't back it up though. I can't remember where I heard that specifically though. I personally think it is a violation of privacy to peer in someones house just because they have a higher power bill.

    There is no absolute justification for it, it could be that your just growing non illegal plants.
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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well with fly overs your supposed to own the air above your property to some degree..
    Well like I pointed out DEA has the right to break down your doors if your energy usage is above normal, so you don't exactly own your own air above your house.

    This is another good reason to legalize pot becuse pot houses exhibit this type of behavior above others.

    With marijuana being legal, this goes out the window.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 03-25-09 at 10:20 PM.

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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    It happens in America too, although they aren't using them to see who is wasting energy but who might have pot growing houses.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I think it is wrong whether a council does it for energy conservation or the U.S. does it to find so called pot houses.

    The simple fact of the matter is in the U.S. if someone doesn't conservate energy like everyone else, the DEA has the AUTOMATIC WARRANT right to break down the door of any house that exhibits above normal energy conservation in search of pot growing houses.

    Let's say you are a house that likes things warm for your family way above average, the DEA can break down your door legally even though you aren't growing pot.

    How's that for a free America?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well like I pointed out DEA has the right to break down your doors if your energy usage is above normal, so you don't exactly own your own air above your house.

    This is another good reason to legalize pot becuse pot houses exhibit this type of behavior above others.

    With marijuana being legal, this goes out the window.
    Are you just making this up on the fly? Seriously, where do you get this stuff?
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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    -- You Brits have to do something about your government, it going too far every day it seems --
    It was actually a conservative council in this case which really surprised me. The only people fighting this in politics at the moment are the Liberal Democrat party who used "freedom of information" legislation to find out the extent of the problem. 10,000 cases of spying on the public have been recorded so far and that's only from the councils who replied. Many didn't - so the problem could be far worse.

    BBC: Extent of spying revealed

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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    In Canada, in all the major municipalities (Toronto, Vancouver, Montréal), police do routine helicopter thermal imaging scans of homes to search for grow ups... but it's not for petty grow ops like people who grow a personal stash of 10 plants, but we're talking entire houses coverted into growing facilities. I don't think the thermal imaging technology is so precise that it can see all of the personal activities of people going on in the home, like their bodily movements. The thermal imaging it designed to detect a certain heat level, and when detected, it is suspected as a grow op.

    I tried to verify TheNextEra's info but only found this:
    Supreme Court Nixes Warrantless Heat-Sensor Searches, Oregon Grow-Op Case Updates Fourth Amendment to Deal With New Technologies

    If this article is even true, SCOTUS in 2001 declared it illegal for helicopters to do broad sweeps of neighbourhoods looking for grow ops. They must first gather intelligence on a suspected house, and then get a warrant to do a fly-by scan of only that house. If that leads to more suspicion, then an entry warrant is issued.

    That was in 2001 though... and I don't personally know much about the DEA's detection methods for grow ops. Maybe the laws have become more loose since then.

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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    In Canada, in all the major municipalities (Toronto, Vancouver, Montréal), police do routine helicopter thermal imaging scans of homes to search for grow ups... but it's not for petty grow ops like people who grow a personal stash of 10 plants, but we're talking entire houses coverted into growing facilities. I don't think the thermal imaging technology is so precise that it can see all of the personal activities of people going on in the home, like their bodily movements. The thermal imaging it designed to detect a certain heat level, and when detected, it is suspected as a grow op.

    I tried to verify TheNextEra's info but only found this:
    Supreme Court Nixes Warrantless Heat-Sensor Searches, Oregon Grow-Op Case Updates Fourth Amendment to Deal With New Technologies

    If this article is even true, SCOTUS in 2001 declared it illegal for helicopters to do broad sweeps of neighbourhoods looking for grow ops. They must first gather intelligence on a suspected house, and then get a warrant to do a fly-by scan of only that house. If that leads to more suspicion, then an entry warrant is issued.

    That was in 2001 though... and I don't personally know much about the DEA's detection methods for grow ops. Maybe the laws have become more loose since then.
    Exactly. It's an investigatory tool subject to limitation like any other.
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    Re: Council uses spy plane with thermal imaging camera to snoop on homes wasting ener

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Exactly. It's an investigatory tool subject to limitation like any other.
    I think in the U.S. it might be limited, but in Canada it's not. The police in all of the major cities have been given broad authority in this matter. I don't agree with it, as they routinely do sweeps of entire areas. They don't have the authority to break down doors without a warrant though... but still, the idea that some orwellian helicopter is prying into my home when I'm doing nothing wrong is kind of disturbing.

    I don't blame people in the UK for being upset by this... but how many controls there have been already accepted? Removal of freedom and rights it's always an incrimental process... people just let it slide until one day they are confronted by something particularly hideous.

    I'm glad the U.S. has more sense than to allow police choppers wonton liberties with inspecting people's homes.

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