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Thread: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    So then let's get specific. Why don't you educate me on the negative effects of Psilocybin. Considering, of course, that it's less toxic for you then aspirin, grows in the ground and no one has ever died from consuming it.
    Psilocybe Toxicity InformationAn excerpt from a paper about Psilocybes, with toxicity information and references.


    Its about 8 times less toxic than MJ.

    common symptoms reported during a typical intoxication:

    Onset: dizziness, giddiness, nausea, weakness, muscle aches, shivering, anxiety, restlessness, abdominal pain.
    Hallucinogenic and Physiologic Effects: visual effects which include brightening and distortion of colors, after-images, visual patterns, and wave-like motion of surfaces, altered faces; increased body temperature, facial flushing, tachycardia (increased heart rate), dilation of pupils, sweating; feelings of unreality and depersonalization, dreaminess, panic feelings; impaired judgment of distances, incoordination; impaired judgment of time; also, a schizophrenoid state of double-conception of both slightly altered real world events and hallucinatory effects has been described.
    Recovery: gradual waning of above effects; headache; extreme fatigue, resulting in 10-15 hours of sleep; profound mental depression; decreased appetite.
    Thank you

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    No offense, but the US black market allows the perfect opportunity to profit in the highest regards.

    Why is high grade hydroponic cannabis worth its weight in gold?

    Why is high grade cocaine worth its weight 2x of platinum?

    Why is high grade heroine worth its weight in carats?

    Answer: Black markets.

    Without a doubt, the US drug policy is chiefly responsible for the drug trafficking throughout the entire world. Without the windfall profit motive, this would be little different than trafficking tobacco.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    No offense, but the US black market allows the perfect opportunity to profit in the highest regards.

    Why is high grade hydroponic cannabis worth its weight in gold?

    Why is high grade cocaine worth its weight 2x of platinum?

    Why is high grade heroine worth its weight in carats?

    Answer: Black markets.

    Without a doubt, the US drug policy is chiefly responsible for the drug trafficking throughout the entire world. Without the windfall profit motive, this would be little different than trafficking tobacco.
    Isn't this a good thing? When something costs more, it's harder to get....

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Isn't this a good thing? When something costs more, it's harder to get....
    Yet.... The lack of supply will precipitate prices upward, via shortage. This translates into more drug dealers, drug murders, and criminal organizations. Just like legal businesses, illegal businesses have a chief goal in mind: Profit!

    If heroin was legal, it does not mean i, or the majority of Americans would try it.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    If heroin was legal, it does not mean i, or the majority of Americans would try it.
    No, but a lot more people would try it.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I'm against legalizing a drug so long as you can't prove the negative effects of criminalization outweigh those of decriminalization. Criminalization discourages use, and also creates a black market; I have seen no evidence that the latter is more dangerous than the former for the vast majority of illegal drugs.

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    No, but a lot more people would try it.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I'm against legalizing a drug so long as you can't prove the negative effects of criminalization outweigh those of decriminalization. Criminalization discourages use, and also creates a black market; I have seen no evidence that the latter is more dangerous than the former for the vast majority of illegal drugs.
    Then why was prohibition of alcohol rescinded? Not to mention, you are are speaking of opinion (in regards to less people trying it). Dutch drug statistics show that a shift from criminal prosecution towards medical treatment (after all addiction is a sickness) lowers the rates of drug abuse.

    Along with the externalities such as increased drug related organized crime, and murder, there is another unintended consequence. Jail sentences assigned for simple possession contribute to felonies or exposure to the true criminal elements of society.

    The thing about black market demand; the inflated prices that accompany it pull the product into the underground economy.

    America's no.1 cash crop is cannabis, not corn, wheat, or soy.

    Contrasting government figures for traditional crops -- like corn and wheat -- against the study's projections for marijuana production, the report cites marijuana as the top cash crop in 12 states and among the top three cash crops in 30.

    The study estimates that marijuana production, at a value of $35.8 billion, exceeds the combined value of corn ($23.3 billion) and wheat ($7.5 billion).
    Marijuana Called Top U.S. Cash Crop - ABC News
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I'm against legalizing a drug so long as you can't prove the negative effects of criminalization outweigh those of decriminalization.
    It has been proven, in every country that has decriminalized drugs, that decriminalization has fewer negative effects than prohibition.

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Then why was prohibition of alcohol rescinded?
    Like I said, the negative effects of criminalization outweighed those of decriminalization. This is especially true if an illegal drug is widely used. Hence, tobacco and alcohol.
    Not to mention, you are are speaking of opinion (in regards to less people trying it). Dutch drug statistics show that a shift from criminal prosecution towards medical treatment (after all addiction is a sickness) lowers the rates of drug abuse.
    I am willing to accept mandatory treatment as opposed to jail time, as long as it's not nothing.
    Along with the externalities such as increased drug related organized crime, and murder, there is another unintended consequence. Jail sentences assigned for simple possession contribute to felonies or exposure to the true criminal elements of society.
    OK, so I'm willing to accept mandatory treatment instead.

    The thing about black market demand; the inflated prices that accompany it pull the product into the underground economy.

    America's no.1 cash crop is cannabis, not corn, wheat, or soy.



    Marijuana Called Top U.S. Cash Crop - ABC News
    This can only happen if the demand is particularly high, as it is with marijuana. Which is why I'm not necessarily against legalizing marijuana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    It has been proven, in every country that has decriminalized drugs, that decriminalization has fewer negative effects than prohibition.
    Prove it. For drugs other than marijuana. I'd like to see the statistics.

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post



    Prove it. For drugs other than marijuana. I'd like to see the statistics.
    Ask and you shall receive.

    The Netherlands Compared With The United States | Drug War Facts

    Pay attention the the hard drug usage rates. Technically, ALL drug use(including)cannabis is not legal in the Netherlands. As the locals say, its "tolerated." Although there are warning signs everywhere that say, "hard drugs not allowed", or both hard and soft drugs.

    Here is the kicker: Dutch cops are not allowed to use DEA style sting operations, and rarely if ever arrest people for hard drug possession. Well, unless you happen to be snorting coke, or shooting up in public and flaunting it. Ill be spending 10 days there from the second week of May, and i travel there 2-5 times per year, so my anecdote is top notch
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Clinton: US shares blame for Mexican drug wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Like I said, the negative effects of criminalization outweighed those of decriminalization. This is especially true if an illegal drug is widely used. Hence, tobacco and alcohol.

    I am willing to accept mandatory treatment as opposed to jail time, as long as it's not nothing.

    OK, so I'm willing to accept mandatory treatment instead.



    This can only happen if the demand is particularly high, as it is with marijuana. Which is why I'm not necessarily against legalizing marijuana.
    What exactly is so "criminal" about drug use? It currently is a victimless crime. I am interested to hear your view on sleeping pills.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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