Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

  1. #11
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The EFCA does not end the secret ballot, it offers it as a choice. The AFLCIO endorses this act, Republicans are against it because they are anti-union, they are using the "secret ballot" argument as an excuse to oppose the legislation.
    If you look at current law it is wisely balanced.

    AFL-CIO is one of the most corrupt organizations in the U.S.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #12
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    So, does card check kill the secret ballot or not? - By Christopher Beam - Slate Magazine

    Seems I was right.

    Would the bill eliminate the secret ballot?

    In theory, no. In practice, yes. That is, if you believe the secret ballot even exists now.

    Here's how it works currently: Say you work at a factory and you want to form a union. First, you approach your favorite union and request a bunch of blank cards. (Here's what they look like.) Then you go around to your colleagues and ask them whether they want to sign up. If they do, they sign their name to the cards. Once you get 30 percent of the total work force to sign cards, you're eligible to hold an election on whether to form a union. (Workers usually wait till they get at least 50 percent or 60 percent, just to make sure they will win the election.) You then present the cards to the National Labor Relations Board and the employer. The employer can then either recognize the union right away or request a secret-ballot election, which must happen within 60 days. If more than 50 percent of employees vote for a union, they've got a union. If not, they don't.

    Even though employers are free to recognize a union without an election, in practice they almost always request an election: Why recognize a union before they have to? Requesting an election also gives them more time to lobby against unionization.

    The essential change of the EFCA would be to allow the employees—rather than the employer—to decide whether to hold a secret-ballot election. If at least half of the work force signed cards saying it wanted a union, there would be a union—without the rigmarole of a full-blown election.
    PeteEU

  3. #13
    Professor
    WillRockwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    07-10-10 @ 09:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,950

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you look at current law it is wisely balanced.

    AFL-CIO is one of the most corrupt organizations in the U.S.
    Agreed the AFL-CIO is corrupt, most unions are. That said, they do protect workers who have no clout individually. The EFCA makes it easier for workers to form unions. Republicans don't like that, because they are the party of the wealthy and the factory owners. But they can't say that because it sounds bad, so they pretend to be standing up for the workers' right to a secret ballot. Fortunately, most Americans are not as dumb as the Republicans expect them to be.

  4. #14
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    No, not really.

    See employers have a say and employees have a say. At least they do now.

    EFCA does not give that balanced option, Employees do not own their jobs but they have a say.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #15
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Agreed the AFL-CIO is corrupt, most unions are. That said, they do protect workers who have no clout individually. The EFCA makes it easier for workers to form unions. Republicans don't like that, because they are the party of the wealthy and the factory owners. But they can't say that because it sounds bad, so they pretend to be standing up for the workers' right to a secret ballot. Fortunately, most Americans are not as dumb as the Republicans expect them to be.
    Paalease, They only protect workers to get money for themselves.

    They are protected jobs that otherwise won't exist because of the union itself.
    Dems and Repubs both have a huge stake in businesses, to say its only republicans is absolute garbage.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #16
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No, not really.

    See employers have a say and employees have a say. At least they do now.

    EFCA does not give that balanced option, Employees do not own their jobs but they have a say.
    And why should an employer have any say if I want to be member of a union or not? Should he have a say on who I vote for at elections, what burger joint I go to? Of course not.

    And as it stands now, the employer has far far far more power than the employee when it comes to forming a union, so there is no balance at all.
    PeteEU

  7. #17
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And why should an employer have any say if I want to be member of a union or not? Should he have a say on who I vote for at elections, what burger joint I go to? Of course not.

    And as it stands now, the employer has far far far more power than the employee when it comes to forming a union, so there is no balance at all.
    The employer should be able to fire anyone that tries to organize a union at their business.

    Your job is not owned by you, unless you are self employed.

    The entire collective of employees has a lot more power than the employer.
    There needs to be a balance.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #18
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    From what I have read, it is not ending the secret ballot by any means. What it does do is make it easier for employees to ask to have the ballot to vote for or against having a union. Now that is not ending the secret ballot by any means.
    This is not correct. If a majority of workers sign the union cards, then they have a union without any vote at all. This means that organizers can sneak around touting the union without management ever having the opportunity to present its side of the story. This means that union organizers can approach people in their homes, at bars, or at work in front of all of their colleagues and ask them to sign the card. That is NOT "free choice" by any means.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    I also understand why the right are against such measures as it would make it easier for the American worker to unionise a workplace, something companies are against of course.
    Well this liberal Democrat thinks it's a horrible idea as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU
    But what are the facts and what is right wing fiction? As I see it, there is so much disinformation out there about it that it is bordering on ridiculous, misinformation lead by CNBC and Fox News and the right wing blogsphere, all who have a political grind against unions and anything remotely employee beneficial (unless it is bankers and financial people of course).
    Unions are not employee beneficial (take a look at the sad economies of Michigan and Ohio). Especially unions that the workers don't even really want.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  9. #19
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,089

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is not correct. If a majority of workers sign the union cards, then they have a union without any vote at all. This means that organizers can sneak around touting the union without management ever having the opportunity to present its side of the story. This means that union organizers can approach people in their homes, at bars, or at work in front of all of their colleagues and ask them to sign the card. That is NOT "free choice" by any means.
    Present "their side" of the story? And what is that exactly? You sound like an employer or conservative pro business person

    "Pst dont join a union because they we cant take you from behind time and time again during wage negotiations... oh btw if you do join, then you are fired.." and all that.

    Give me a freaking break. Management has no side. They do not want unions period so they are in a direct conflict of interest and should not be involved at all.

    This is a personal call by the worker and he or she should not be intimidated by anyone, union or employer.

    All I can see this change will do is take away the power of employers to delay and block the unionisation of the work place. And you are complaining about free choice and back the present legislation that actually makes it hard to unionise a work place? Give me a break.

    Well this liberal Democrat thinks it's a horrible idea as well.
    And so what? Free choice after all.. That is the whole point. It is the choice of the individual to be a member of a union and whatever union you want. Hell in the "socialist Europe" I have tons of unions to choose from and guess what.. I choose not to join one, and it did not effect my employment. Now that is free choice. And yes the union representatives were pissed for a while, but nothing that a few beers after work did not fix.

    Unions are not employee beneficial (take a look at the sad economies of Michigan and Ohio). Especially unions that the workers don't even really want.
    Sorry but that is simply not true.

    While I would agree that some unions are like politicians, they are in it for themselves and they are corrupt, the idea of a union is a very sound and beneficial thing, just like having politicians is a sound thing.

    It is unions that have given health and safety in the work place for one, not to mention the wage aspect. Dont think for a second employers would have done that on their own... we are talking about the same people who sent children into mines and used children in large factories inside machines because they were "small". The whole reason we have unions today (and socialism) is because of greed and the lack of respect for workers by the employers and their political allies (aka the conservative movement).

    I fully understand the distrust of unions, because I actually agree in many ways that some people in some unions are corrupt and in it for themselves and I in no way agree with the "tough recruiting" methods some unions have. However that does not change the fact that it is up the individual employee and not the employer to join a union or not.

    And all I can see in this change is that, it makes it easier for a work force to unionise, something that was quite hard before.
    PeteEU

  10. #20
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Specter changes mind on Employee Free Choice Act

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Present "their side" of the story? And what is that exactly? You sound like an employer or conservative pro business person

    "Pst dont join a union because they we cant take you from behind time and time again during wage negotiations... oh btw if you do join, then you are fired.." and all that.

    Give me a freaking break. Management has no side. They do not want unions period so they are in a direct conflict of interest and should not be involved at all.

    This is a personal call by the worker and he or she should not be intimidated by anyone, union or employer.

    All I can see this change will do is take away the power of employers to delay and block the unionisation of the work place. And you are complaining about free choice and back the present legislation that actually makes it hard to unionise a work place? Give me a break.



    And so what? Free choice after all.. That is the whole point. It is the choice of the individual to be a member of a union and whatever union you want. Hell in the "socialist Europe" I have tons of unions to choose from and guess what.. I choose not to join one, and it did not effect my employment. Now that is free choice. And yes the union representatives were pissed for a while, but nothing that a few beers after work did not fix.



    Sorry but that is simply not true.

    While I would agree that some unions are like politicians, they are in it for themselves and they are corrupt, the idea of a union is a very sound and beneficial thing, just like having politicians is a sound thing.

    It is unions that have given health and safety in the work place for one, not to mention the wage aspect. Dont think for a second employers would have done that on their own... we are talking about the same people who sent children into mines and used children in large factories inside machines because they were "small". The whole reason we have unions today (and socialism) is because of greed and the lack of respect for workers by the employers and their political allies (aka the conservative movement).

    I fully understand the distrust of unions, because I actually agree in many ways that some people in some unions are corrupt and in it for themselves and I in no way agree with the "tough recruiting" methods some unions have. However that does not change the fact that it is up the individual employee and not the employer to join a union or not.

    And all I can see in this change is that, it makes it easier for a work force to unionise, something that was quite hard before.
    I don't know how unions are run were you are but here nearly every single one of them I can think of is corrupt to the bone.

    The wages they get are not sustainable for the employers like Ford and Chrysler.

    The only companies opening in my area are foreign car makers.
    All the American car makers have closed shop and left.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •