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Thread: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    There is a price we have to pay for being a compassionate people and not allowing fellow citizens to die because they can't pay the doctor.

    But nobody should be allowed this free health care if they can afford to pay at least some money every month. If they can't pay $300/month but can pay $100/month then they should. It puts money into the health system rather than no money. And small businesses shouldn't be making the government pay for their sick employees.

    We have a socialist health care system and always have. In years past the church nuns took care of the poor sick. The wealthy paid the Church in money and property. Then we had medicaid.

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    But nobody should be allowed this free health care if they can afford to pay at least some money every month. If they can't pay $300/month but can pay $100/month then they should.
    I completely agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac
    It puts money into the health system rather than no money. And small businesses shouldn't be making the government pay for their sick employees.
    I completely disagree with this. A guy who owns a coffee shop can't afford to pay for his employees' chemotherapy anymore than they can. It would be wise to completely sever the tie between employment and health insurance once and for all.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I never stated how much the expense was. Only that I couldn't afford it and I had to make payments on it for several years. Whether it was 5000 or 500000 is irrelevant when I couldn't afford $200. Fact was, I couldn't afford the procedure no matter how much it was. I made payments on it, just like I do my car that I couldn't afford to buy outright. And my grandparents are still making payment on my grandpa's bypass, 12 years later.
    You're right, you didn't say how much the expense was. So assuming that all of the facts you gave are true, one of two things must also be true: 1) Your medical costs were not really that expensive in the grand scheme of things, or 2) You didn't pay the full amount.

    Either way, it wasn't on your dime, because you forced the hospital to give you a loan. That alone is a good enough reason to require you to have health insurance. The fact that you made payments later is honorable, but isn't necessarily the norm. In many cases, the bills are too high or the patients are too dead to pay it off. Or the patients just decide they don't want to bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    No, it's not meaningless. No one is entitled to health care. NO ONE. It is a SERVICE that must be paid for. And, people that have expensive procedures done can make payments on them just like the rest of the country makes payments on things they can't afford outright.
    Would it be fair to assume you negotiated your payments AFTER the fact? Suppose you could have studied the bills ahead of time and concluded that your future payments would be more than you could ever afford...would you have told the doctors not to treat you?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    But you can survive without insurance, which is the point. And aside from that, no one survives forever, death is inevitable for all of us. It's just a matter of how long we can delay it.
    I think most people would agree that delaying it longer is a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    I did miss that, and that makes it even worse. I can only hope that no one takes that bull**** seriously. Hopefully there are enough people in the country that still respect individual freedom and responsibility enough to prevent the passing of some bill that only removes yet another choice from us. How anyone can favor passing laws that remove individual choices about their own life, much less their own HEALTH, is beyond me.
    Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but you are just as much of a leech on the health care system as anyone, so you have no room to talk about "individual freedom and responsibility." You made the irresponsible decision not to carry health insurance, and then when that didn't work you made the hospital give you a loan to subsidize your irresponsibility. You are a textbook example of why we need the government to mandate that people must have health insurance.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-24-09 at 09:52 PM.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but you are just as much of a leech on the health care system as anyone, so you have no room to talk about "individual freedom and responsibility." You made the irresponsible decision not to carry health insurance, and then when that didn't work you made the hospital give you a loan to subsidize your irresponsibility. You are a textbook example of why we need the government to mandate that people must have health insurance.
    Bull ****ing ****. They performed a service, and I paid them for it. Leeching? I did no such thing.

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    There is a price we have to pay for being a compassionate people and not allowing fellow citizens to die because they can't pay the doctor.
    I'll choose when I can afford to be compassionate.

    Not you or anyone else.


    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    But nobody should be allowed this free health care if they can afford to pay at least some money every month. If they can't pay $300/month but can pay $100/month then they should. It puts money into the health system rather than no money. And small businesses shouldn't be making the government pay for their sick employees.
    I agree employers should get out of providing health insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    We have a socialist health care system and always have. In years past the church nuns took care of the poor sick. The wealthy paid the Church in money and property. Then we had medicaid.
    The church did that on their own, the wealthy did that on their own.

    No one was forced to do that.

    Medicaid is a sure sign of things to come, slowly doctors are restricting access to medicaid patients because it doesn't pay enough.

    Medicare and medicaid are nothing to be proud of, those programs are helping cause the increase in insurance prices.

    They charge more to people who pay for their own health care whether through insurance or with cash to make up for medicare and medicaid patients.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Life isn't fair.
    This is the most relevant post in this thread.

    Life is not ****ing fair, you can not save everyone.

    If you think so please move to fairy fantasy world were no one gets sick.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Bull ****ing ****. They performed a service, and I paid them for it. Leeching? I did no such thing.
    Did you or did you not force them to give you a loan, because you had no insurance and couldn't pay for the services at the time? That's better than forcing them to pay for it entirely...but still undercuts your arguments about personal responsibility.

    The responsible thing to do was to carry insurance so that you were able to pay for the services at the time they were rendered. How would you like it if your customer told you that it was going to be several years before you got your money?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-24-09 at 10:58 PM.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Did you or did you not force them to give you a loan, because you had no insurance and couldn't pay for the services at the time? That's better than forcing them to pay for it entirely...but still undercuts your arguments about personal responsibility.
    Incorrect. I received no "loan" from them. They performed a service and I paid them, in it's entirety. That, in no way, undercuts any argument for personal responsibility. It is the epitome of personal responsibility. They didn't HAVE to service me. They CHOSE to, knowing I didn't have insurance. And I, being the personally responsible person I am, paid them for it fully.

    The responsible thing to do was to carry insurance so that you were able to pay for the services at the time they were rendered. How would you like it if your customer told you that it was going to be several years before you got your money?
    LOL I'd be fine with having thousands of people making me monthly payments. Who the **** wouldn't?

    If I wasn't fine with it, I wouldn't be in the business of performing a service that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per procedure. If I wasn't fine with it, I would refuse to perform said service for someone who didn't have insurance.

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'll choose when I can afford to be compassionate.

    Not you or anyone else.
    You'll choose? How are you going to do that? You live in a civilized country that takes care of it's sick citizens if they have no money.

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    You'll choose? How are you going to do that? You live in a civilized country that takes care of it's sick citizens if they have no money.
    I have private insurance but at the same time I'm classified as the working poor.

    Why should the working poor pay for sick people?

    I think it is more uncivilized for people to force other people to do things they may not want to.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Incorrect. I received no "loan" from them.
    You accrued a financial obligation from someone who performed a service for you. You did not immediately pay it off, and instead paid it off gradually, month by month.

    How is that not a loan?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    They performed a service and I paid them, in it's entirety. That, in no way, undercuts any argument for personal responsibility. It is the epitome of personal responsibility. They didn't HAVE to service me. They CHOSE to, knowing I didn't have insurance. And I, being the personally responsible person I am, paid them for it fully.
    In other words, you depended on the fact that their sympathy for your situation would overcome their business senses. And how exactly does always relying on the kindness of strangers epitomize personal responsibility?

    Your anecdote has no relevance to this discussion (at least not for the point you're trying to make), because you did NOT do the responsible thing. You relied on the hospital to help you in spite of their business interests; after all, they would have little reason to believe that letting you pay month-by-month would be a good investment. Your example does not help your argument; on the contrary, it makes it laughable when you call for personal responsibility and the freedom to not have to pay for others' medical expenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    LOL I'd be fine with having thousands of people making me monthly payments. Who the **** wouldn't?
    I'd rather just have the money now. I think most wise businessmen would.
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