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Thread: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

  1. #31
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Simply put, this shifts the burden of caring for sick people further onto healthy people. When the sick person in question is someone with Parkinson's or MS, that's not a problem to me. When the sick person in question is someone with diabetes/cancer/heart disease/etc. caused in part or whole by their own personal choices, I have a problem with that.

    rivrrat's example above is perfectly apt. Car insurance is not a "necessity," but neither is health insurance.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 03-24-09 at 08:11 PM.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Ya if you get hit by a truck, they'll pay for your ER care. But no hospital is going to give someone a $500K bone marrow transplant in the hopes that they'll make monthly payments and eventually pay it off.
    And, why should they? It would be bad business, for certain. I'm certainly not entitled to their services.

    Either you have an unfair insurance company, or they found you at least partially at fault for the accident.
    Life isn't fair.

    If that is a place where it's likely to be stolen or damaged, then yes.
    LOL Yeah, okay. It was "my fault" my truck was stolen from my driveway. Much like it was "my fault" I have Grave's Disease.

    Sorry, I don't believe you. The math does not add up. Even if you somehow managed to live on $6K per year and spent the other half of your salary paying off your medical bills for ten years, that's only $60K. That's chump change compared to what a lot of medical procedures cost. And you were fortunate that you were able to continue working at all; many sick people are not.
    I didn't give you any math TO add up, so just what are you trying to add up? And fortunately for the rest of the world, the truth doesn't require your belief in order to be true.

    Who said anything about being fortunate or not? Did I state that I wasn't fortunate? Did I state that some people are not fortunate? No, I didn't. What I did state was that I hope the auto insurance industry follows suit with this health insurance company so we can ALL have radically higher premiums no matter how healthy we are or how crappy we are at driving. It is, after all, the only fair thing to do.

    Thing is, this insurance company will be out of business before too long. All the REALLY sick people will flock to them. And all of the healthy people will bail since they'll get much cheaper premiums elsewhere. The only way it could possibly work is if every single insurer did the same thing. And then, all that would do is force all of us to pay more. Not really sure how that's helping anything.

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Simply put, this shifts the burden of caring for sick people further onto healthy people. When the sick person in question is someone with Parkinson's or MS, that's not a problem to me. When the sick person in question is someone with diabetes/cancer/heart disease/etc. caused in part or whole by their own personal choices, I have a problem with that.
    I think philosophically many of us would agree with that sentiment. As a practical matter, it would only place a level of ridiculous bureaucracy and red tape on an already over-taxed system.

    For instance, if three patients present with lung cancer... the first a lifetime non-smoker, the second smoked occasionally in her early 20's, the third a lifetime 2-pack-a-day habit... which of those three should not be treated?

    We could devise the same perplexing scenarios for just about any condition that might be 'lifestyle' related. Heart attack? Was it genetic predisposition, lack of exercise, or that extra 15 pounds the doctor warned you to take off for years!?!

    I don't know anybody who leads a perfectly healthy lifestyle. Do you?


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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Thing is, this insurance company will be out of business before too long. All the REALLY sick people will flock to them. And all of the healthy people will bail since they'll get much cheaper premiums elsewhere. The only way it could possibly work is if every single insurer did the same thing. And then, all that would do is force all of us to pay more. Not really sure how that's helping anything.
    And that's the reason we have antitrust statutes, unless of course government decides to create a special exception for them.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I think philosophically many of us would agree with that sentiment. As a practical matter, it would only place a level of ridiculous bureaucracy and red tape on an already over-taxed system.

    For instance, if three patients present with lung cancer... the first a lifetime non-smoker, the second smoked occasionally in her early 20's, the third a lifetime 2-pack-a-day habit... which of those three should not be treated?

    We could devise the same perplexing scenarios for just about any condition that might be 'lifestyle' related. Heart attack? Was it genetic predisposition, lack of exercise, or that extra 15 pounds the doctor warned you to take off for years!?!

    I don't know anybody who leads a perfectly healthy lifestyle. Do you?

    You're 100% right. I'm not saying it's practical to do a case-by-case analysis, I'm simply wary of a system where it will make it more likely that more healthy people will be subsidizing more people who are, to some degree, "sick" due to their own choices.

    I don't think there really is a practical way to implement any of this stuff.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I didn't give you any math TO add up, so just what are you trying to add up?
    You did. You said that your income was $12K, that it took you several years to pay off your debt (which I took to mean less than ten), and that it wasn't on anyone's dime but your own.

    Your math simply does not add up. There is absolutely no way that you can support yourself on $12K per year while also paying off an expensive medical procedure. As I said, even if it took you ten years and you spent half your salary, that's a paltry $60K, which is NOTHING compared to some medical expenses.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Who said anything about being fortunate or not? Did I state that I wasn't fortunate? Did I state that some people are not fortunate? No, I didn't.
    Then your anecdote is completely meaningless to the subject at hand. "I think we should solve world hunger by getting food from our refrigerators. That's what *I* do when I'm hungry. I wonder why Africans don't think of that."

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    What I did state was that I hope the auto insurance industry follows suit with this health insurance company so we can ALL have radically higher premiums no matter how healthy we are or how crappy we are at driving. It is, after all, the only fair thing to do.
    Driving crappily is a choice and you can survive without a car. Getting leukemia is not a choice and you cannot survive without your health.

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat
    Thing is, this insurance company will be out of business before too long. All the REALLY sick people will flock to them. And all of the healthy people will bail since they'll get much cheaper premiums elsewhere. The only way it could possibly work is if every single insurer did the same thing. And then, all that would do is force all of us to pay more. Not really sure how that's helping anything.
    You must've missed the part where they said that they were willing to do this IN EXCHANGE for a mandate that everyone purchase health insurance. Which is a good trade, and I hope the Obama Administration takes them up on this.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-24-09 at 08:56 PM.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Insurers offer to stop charging sick people more



    This is an excellent idea, and is a compromise that I have been encouraging for quite some time. If everyone is required to have health insurance, then there won't be any problem of people waiting until they get sick and then getting insurance at a cheap price. I hope that the Obama Administration will consider this option as an important part of its health care plan.

    It's good to see the insurance companies willing to make this compromise, and I think this bodes well for the future of health insurance in this country.
    Gee Kanadahar, they must have finally read your posts and listened.


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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Gee Kanadahar, they must have finally read your posts and listened.


    Excellent contribution the discussion! Thanks for your insight. Bye bye now.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Aww come on, where's your sense of humor. You got to admit it was funny the way you said it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You did. You said that your income was $12K, that it took you several years to pay off your debt (which I took to mean less than ten), and that it wasn't on anyone's dime but your own.

    Your math simply does not add up. There is absolutely no way that you can support yourself on $12K per year while also paying off an expensive medical procedure. As I said, even if it took you ten years and you spent half your salary, that's a paltry $60K, which is NOTHING compared to some medical expenses.
    I never stated how much the expense was. Only that I couldn't afford it and I had to make payments on it for several years. Whether it was 5000 or 500000 is irrelevant when I couldn't afford $200. Fact was, I couldn't afford the procedure no matter how much it was. I made payments on it, just like I do my car that I couldn't afford to buy outright. And my grandparents are still making payment on my grandpa's bypass, 12 years later.

    Then your anecdote is completely meaningless to the subject at hand. "I think we should solve world hunger by getting food from our refrigerators. That's what *I* do when I'm hungry. I wonder why Africans don't think of that."
    No, it's not meaningless. No one is entitled to health care. NO ONE. It is a SERVICE that must be paid for. And, people that have expensive procedures done can make payments on them just like the rest of the country makes payments on things they can't afford outright.

    Driving crappily is a choice and you can survive without a car. Getting leukemia is not a choice and you cannot survive without your health.
    But you can survive without insurance, which is the point. And aside from that, no one survives forever, death is inevitable for all of us. It's just a matter of how long we can delay it.

    You must've missed the part where they said that they were willing to do this IN EXCHANGE for a mandate that everyone purchase health insurance. Which is a good trade, and I hope the Obama Administration takes them up on this.
    I did miss that, and that makes it even worse. I can only hope that no one takes that bull**** seriously. Hopefully there are enough people in the country that still respect individual freedom and responsibility enough to prevent the passing of some bill that only removes yet another choice from us. How anyone can favor passing laws that remove individual choices about their own life, much less their own HEALTH, is beyond me.

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