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Thread: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

  1. #91
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    OK, how about this for an option. Health insurance is completely voluntary, be it private or governmental. However, if you do not have insurance, and do not have a way to pay, hospitals and physicians no longer have any obligation to treat you. They can say, "you cannot pay, you do not get treatment", and have zero legal liability at this point. Seems to me this fulfills the issue of personal responsibility, and doesn't force anything on anyone.

    How does that sound?
    Physicians are already under no obligation to treat you. Every doctor's office I've been to states "Payment expected at time of service, unless other arrangements have been made." Which means: If you can't pay right now, and they don't wish to give you a line of credit with them, then you go to another doctor. Hell, some docs require payment PRIOR to service. And double hell, I've actually had a doctor decline to see me BECAUSE I had insurance. Yes, you heard me right.

    Hospitals also are only required to offer emergency life saving treatment, nothing more.

    So, I see nothing wrong with your statement whatsoever. Why should hospitals or private physicians offer their services to anyone against their will. They shouldn't.

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    OK, how about this for an option. Health insurance is completely voluntary, be it private or governmental. However, if you do not have insurance, and do not have a way to pay, hospitals and physicians no longer have any obligation to treat you. They can say, "you cannot pay, you do not get treatment", and have zero legal liability at this point. Seems to me this fulfills the issue of personal responsibility, and doesn't force anything on anyone.

    How does that sound?
    No, for several reasons:

    1) When someone has just been in a serious car accident and was airlifted into the hospital, it will likely detract from the treatment if the first thing everyone does is try to find the patient's insurance card.

    2) Most hospitals, like most anyone else in that situation, will choose not to simply let people die when they have the opportunity to prevent it...legal obligation or not. There is no reason to place them in that tough spot and burden THEM with the cost of irresponsible or indigent people who don't have health insurance.

    3) This will encourage more people (including certain people on this thread) to take advantage of the hospital's sympathies and not carry insurance, thus distorting the market.


    Health insurance is NOT like auto insurance, and to treat them as if they are the same is short-sighted and impractical.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 03-26-09 at 04:47 PM.
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, for several reasons:

    1) When someone has just been in a serious car accident and was airlifted into the hospital, it will likely detract from the treatment if the first thing everyone does is try to find the patient's insurance card.

    .
    This is a little bit off topic but last night here in Dallas a pro football player for the Houston Texans was racing to see his dying mother at the hospital. He ran a red light. A Dallas police officer pulled him over in the hospital parking lot and held him, threatened to tow his car while his mother was dying in the hospital all over because he could not find his insurance card. In the mean time his passed away with out him being their.

  4. #94
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Tastes like wood grilled Red Herring with an "extremist logic" aioli.
    Not a red herring in the least. It is a question on DP's favorite game show, HYPOCRISY CHECK! And it makes sense...if you do not believe in government mandated health care, nor socialized medicine, then you will have no problem with what I stated. If you do, but you have a problem with my proposal, "you've got some 'splainin' to do".
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Physicians are already under no obligation to treat you. Every doctor's office I've been to states "Payment expected at time of service, unless other arrangements have been made." Which means: If you can't pay right now, and they don't wish to give you a line of credit with them, then you go to another doctor. Hell, some docs require payment PRIOR to service. And double hell, I've actually had a doctor decline to see me BECAUSE I had insurance. Yes, you heard me right.

    Hospitals also are only required to offer emergency life saving treatment, nothing more.

    So, I see nothing wrong with your statement whatsoever. Why should hospitals or private physicians offer their services to anyone against their will. They shouldn't.
    In bold. I am including this in my proposal. This will no longer be required. If you cannot pay, you cannot receive emergency, life threatening treatment. That would be the government paying for your health care, which, ultimately, means tax payers...you and I.

    So, rivrrat, do you still have no problem with my proposal?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, for several reasons:

    1) When someone has just been in a serious car accident and was airlifted into the hospital, it will likely detract from the treatment if the first thing everyone does is try to find the patient's insurance card.

    2) Most hospitals, like most anyone else in that situation, will choose not to simply let people die when they have the opportunity to prevent it...legal obligation or not. There is no reason to place them in that tough spot and burden THEM with the cost of irresponsible or indigent people who don't have health insurance.

    3) This will encourage more people (including certain people on this thread) to take advantage of the hospital's sympathies and not carry insurance, thus distorting the market.


    Health insurance is NOT like auto insurance, and to treat them as if they are the same is short-sighted and impractical.
    Kandahar has passed the HYPOCRISY CHECK! question and shown consistency. Your have won the newest version of HYPOCRISY CHECK! the home game.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #97
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    In bold. I am including this in my proposal. This will no longer be required. If you cannot pay, you cannot receive emergency, life threatening treatment. That would be the government paying for your health care, which, ultimately, means tax payers...you and I.

    So, rivrrat, do you still have no problem with my proposal?
    I'm not sure how they can determine if someone can pay or not when they're unconscious and bleeding to death on a gurney. They're lucky if they even know what their name is.

  8. #98
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    OK, how about this for an option. Health insurance is completely voluntary, be it private or governmental. However, if you do not have insurance, and do not have a way to pay, hospitals and physicians no longer have any obligation to treat you. They can say, "you cannot pay, you do not get treatment", and have zero legal liability at this point. Seems to me this fulfills the issue of personal responsibility, and doesn't force anything on anyone.

    How does that sound?
    Non emergency physicians can and do behave this way now. However folks are not EVER turned away from the emergency room without evaluation and treatment to insure that they are in "stable" condition. This is why emergency rooms across the nation are now commonly used as primary care drs. for the non-insured.

    I'm certainly not in favor of allowing kids to die because their parents didn't bother to or could not insure them. Nor do I think we as a society could or should stomach allowing large groups of people to succumb to easily treatable conditions because they don't have $$$ for treatments like antibiotics or life saving surgery.

    I would support the government mandating that we are ALL required to have health insurance. I'd also support a system where insurance premiums are graduated depending on your ability to pay. If done right, insurance could ultimately be cheaper for everyone.

  9. #99
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I'm not sure how they can determine if someone can pay or not when they're unconscious and bleeding to death on a gurney. They're lucky if they even know what their name is.
    If they cannot respond to the question, "how are you paying for this", then the default would be, "I cannot", and they would not be treated.

    So, now that my proposal is further clarified, are you OK with this?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #100
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    Re: Health insurers offer to stop charging sick people more

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Non emergency physicians can and do behave this way now. However folks are not EVER turned away from the emergency room without evaluation and treatment to insure that they are in "stable" condition. This is why emergency rooms across the nation are now commonly used as primary care drs. for the non-insured.

    I'm certainly not in favor of allowing kids to die because their parents didn't bother to or could not insure them. Nor do I think we as a society could or should stomach allowing large groups of people to succumb to easily treatable conditions because they don't have $$$ for treatments like antibiotics or life saving surgery.

    I would support the government mandating that we are ALL required to have health insurance. I'd also support a system where insurance premiums are graduated depending on your ability to pay. If done right, insurance could ultimately be cheaper for everyone.
    talloulou has passed the HYPOCRISY CHECK! question and shown consistency. Your have won the newest version of HYPOCRISY CHECK! the home game.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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