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Thread: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

  1. #61
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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCore View Post
    While I disagree with the vandalizing there is a similar action found in Jesus clearing the Temple with a whip. The purpose of the Temple was to offer reconciliation with God and find Peace in Atonement. However, the client-kings crapped all over that through endless means of extortion, deception and slavery. The purpose of a Recruiting station is to offer Americans the chance to Serve in the Military and protect our Nation. Like the Temple, those who run our military have engaged in deception (Iraq/Afghanistan),

    How were Iraq and Afganistan a "Deception" are you one of those conspiracy types?

    Slavery (Stop-
    Loss...which is a fancy term for "You can't leave until we say you can.), and extortion (Support Our Military or you HATE our Troops!)

    As one who served, and one who was "Stop-lossed", I can tell you it was clearly part of the contract when I signed up. One signs up for 4 active, 4 IRR, stop loss is a call on the IRR.

    When and where did you serve again?



    So while I don't agree with nor condone the vandalism, it's a bit of a stretch to dismiss it simply as communist whackos. It isn't anti-American to have at least some intellectual breathing room, is it?

    It is anti-american to attack the military and the troops with the spray paint you paid for with your parents credit cards.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCore View Post
    #1--Imperialism is not a "valid" anything.

    Imperialism? have we annexed Iraq yet? I must have missed that.


    #2--so what? The #1 financier of terrorism in the world is Saudi Arabia. If we are reacting to the "terror threat" why did we go after one of the smallest fish in the pond?
    The saudi government? I missed that as well.

    #3--i didn't think anyone sober still tried to make that argument. The CIA Chief of Europe went to the White House in August/Sept 02' to point out there was no valid evidence of WMD and even Rumsfeld said in Oct 02' one of the problems of invading iraq is that WMD may not be found. But all of that aside, common sense tells us the Bush admin knew there were no WMD. Can anyone guess how?

    If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People -- Version 3.0 - Right Wing News (Conservative News and Views)



    #4--the cease fire agreement was made with the UN, not the US and it never authorized a military response without UNSC approval. So in the desperation of trying to defend the invasion peeps always undermine their own position when referencing the cease fire.

    1441.


    #6--even if true, so what? We had no legitimate reason to invade iraq or afghanistan so that means Russia can invade us, right? Or is this howdy doody double standard time?
    io


    What? The taliban harbored the group that killed 3000 of our countrymen. Iraq violated the cease fire, and the criminal UN was making bank off of the sanctions. What world are you living in?



    Please, your silly cindy sheehan nonsense has been debunked for years.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  3. #63
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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Ridiculous. Nothing is ever going to be accomplished if we operate purely off of emotionalized, knee jerk reactions and refuse to think about problems.
    I always love when libertarian types come out and say something along this line and then go on a "Bush Lied! We went to war for Oil! He's shat on the constitution! Out of Iraq IMMEDIETELY! Get out get out get out!"

    Yeah, don't do anything knee jerk, reactionary, emotionalized, and without thinking about the rpoblems.

    The vast majority of libertarian types I've spoken to about this NEVER seem to take into account the potential issues with an immediete quick withdraw from Iraq, let alone the "lets pull out of every base everywhere over the entire globe imemdietely" that became popular to peddle. Their reasons rarely are purely logic based, usually with screaming charges of "They're killing the constitution!" or "Illegal! Illegal! Our founders would roll in the graves".

    Bull**** about not doing things without thinking about the problems or with emotion invested in it. Its doing things they don't like that has emotions involved, or doing things they don't like without agreeing with what THEY think are problems.

    Its all rationalized bull**** that every side does but Libertarians always seem to act like they're ****ing titan upon mount olympus when it comes to things, untouchable by what the common little peons down below do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Not widespread, no terrorist camps in operation. You'll have to prove otherwise. Hearsay and coincidence don't justify invasion and occupation. You're gonna need real data. And if that's the case, why ain't we going after Saudi Arabia...oh, wait...
    Lets play devil's advocate here. Most libertarians seem to be for all drugs being legalized, yes? Yet so often, the big movement isn't "Legalize All Drugs!"...its legalize marijuana. Why? Because they don't make an EMOTIONAL decision but one based on reason. The most likely and easiest drug to initially get legalize would likely be marijuana AND if you focused on ALL drugs you'd likely margianlize the support you'd get leaving you without legalized marijuana or anything else. As such, they focus on the most likely one at first, hoping that if you legalize that one it'll lay the groundwork and foundation to move to the ones that would be far more difficult in teh future.

    Likewise, while Saudi may be much larger bank roller of terror, or even Iran, through a rational accessment of the situation it could be said that the risk of going at them first outweighed the reward of your utlimate goal (in this case the assumed "war on terror"). Instead you look towards Iraq.

    You have violation of numerous U.N. treaties over the year.
    You do have proof of at least some interaction with terrorism whether that's harboring them knowingly (maybe not by Saddam but by the government as a general entity) or sponsoring terrorist acts abroad in say Israel.
    You do have numerous intelligence reports that you could use for justification of a potential thread.
    It provides the best tactical position for furthering the war on terror. (much like marijuana is the best tactical position for expanding the legalization)

    Now, does that mean its JUSTIFIED? Not necessarily. Are all those things rock solid? Absolutely not. BUT this idiotic slapstick EMOTIONAL response of "OMG Saudi!" as a way of attempting to blow the War in Iraq out of water is illogical and ignorant and in the case of libertarians simply and fully dishonest and hypocritical.

  4. #64
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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Uhm zyph,


    Good post, but the whole bush lied people died was the sheehan lib crowd.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #65
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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCore View Post

    Stop Loss is not a part of the Contract.


    in case the above is too small for you to read-

    10. MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION FOR ALL
    MEMBERS OF THE ACTIVE AND RESERVE COM-
    PONENTS, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL GUARD.
    a. FOR ALL ENLISTEES: If this is my initial en-
    listment, I must serve a total of eight (8) years. Any part
    of that service not served on active duty must be served
    in a Reserve Component unless I am sooner discharged.



    There is a part of the contract for IRR committments (inactive ready reserves) which means once your enlisted term is up and you've left the military it can call you back to active duty for up to 8 years after your last date of service.
    Its is not 8 years after your last date of service. It is 8 years total, part of your enlistment is active duty and part of it is inactive,so if you serve 3 years active duty then your inactive service is 5 years,if you serve 5 years inactive service then your inactive service is 3.


    No matter how many decorations are used, Stop-Loss is Slavery, pure and simple.
    A slave is someone who is owned by someone else.Those who serve in the military are not owned by anyone.Nor are they working for free.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 03-24-09 at 03:48 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Uhm zyph,

    Good post, but the whole bush lied people died was the sheehan lib crowd.
    Oh, I found those same people often in the Ron Paul forums I'd visit. Now granted, Paul seemed to not just draw in Libertarians but pulled in liberals who were unhappy with Obama or Hillary war stance in the primaries and Republicans unhappy with the other candidates on everything other than the war, so it could've been others than truly "libertarians"...however, was more the general mindset than actual statements. Numerous libertarians on the forum and in other places were firmly in the "pull out immedietely" crowd. Still, I'll accentuate that better instead of possibly confusing in an edit.

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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I found those same people often in the Ron Paul forums I'd visit. Now granted, Paul seemed to not just draw in Libertarians but pulled in liberals who were unhappy with Obama or Hillary war stance in the primaries and Republicans unhappy with the other candidates on everything other than the war, so it could've been others than truly "libertarians"...however, was more the general mindset than actual statements. Numerous libertarians on the forum and in other places were firmly in the "pull out immedietely" crowd. Still, I'll accentuate that better instead of possibly confusing in an edit.



    I always found it odd the number of libs that supported Paul. I just chalked them up as idiots. These people obviously had no idea what they stood for.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    The liberals that loved him simply because of the war boggled my mind as much as the conservatives that would say that Ron Paul wasn't a "real" conservative because he didn't agree with the War in Iraq. Made me shake my head and just chuckle at all involved.

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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The liberals that loved him simply because of the war boggled my mind as much as the conservatives that would say that Ron Paul wasn't a "real" conservative because he didn't agree with the War in Iraq. Made me shake my head and just chuckle at all involved.
    '

    exactly..... My personal problem with paul is that he was a bit too extreme in his isolationist stance and the legalization of crack and heroin. Even this Libertarian "conservative" does not see these as a good idea.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Marine recruiting station under attack... again

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I addressed the only part of your argument that wasnt based on simple partisan opinion. THAT, I ignored for the blah-blah-blah that it was.


    Have you read your service contract?
    Yeah. I did. The one I signed in 1979 said that my ass was theirs for some time after the completion of the mimimum enlistment term, depending on the "needs of the service".

    Anyone know why that clause is in that contract?

    Of course you do. In the Revolution units would pack up and march home when their terms of enlistment were completed, regardless of what was needed of them in the near future, making the outcome of the Revolution that much more uncertain. Recruiting was a bitch at the time, seriously.

    But the troops were still volunteer troops, just like today. Today's troops volunteer, and that clause, or something similar, is in their contract. If they don't like it, they don't have to volunteer. It's not slavery.

    Slavery is when the Democrats kept insisting the nation implement a draft. How stupid is that?

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