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Marine recruiting station under attack... again

Bye! don't let the door hit ya! :2wave:


I never said our troops are murders but that won't stop you from lying. I also didn't avoid answering anthing but lying seems to be the only thing you are capable accomplishing.

Good job on consistently ignoring the SL clause I pointed out as well as:

"As we have said on numerous occasions to Council members, this Resolution contains no “hidden triggers” and no “automaticity” with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA, or a member state, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12."http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...1108usstat.htmI

You claimed 1441 authorized military action but when I smack that down by quoting our ambassador who stated the exact opposite you pretend to not see what you claimed is utterly false. That's what is so pathetic about the pro-war crowd...they pretend to care.


What's even funnier is accusing me of being a sock. Paranoia is a side effect of constantly lying. Lol...in addition...you view yourself so high that you believe someone would create a sock, as if your posts carry some type of weight. Sad.
 
I never said our troops are murders but that won't stop you from lying. I also didn't avoid answering anthing but lying seems to be the only thing you are capable accomplishing.


When asked about it, you never said no. You still have not answered. I have all the information I need.


Good job on consistently ignoring the SL clause I pointed out as well as:


It was in your now less than phone book sized contract. YOU FAIL

"As we have said on numerous occasions to Council members, this Resolution contains no “hidden triggers” and no “automaticity” with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA, or a member state, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12."http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...1108usstat.htmI

who is this elected official again?


You claimed 1441 authorized military action but when I smack that down by quoting our ambassador who stated the exact opposite you pretend to not see what you claimed is utterly false. That's what is so pathetic about the pro-war crowd...they pretend to care.

What ambassadors are infallible? As infallible as your vaunted UN?

What's even funnier is accusing me of being a sock. Paranoia is a side effect of constantly lying. Lol...in addition...you view yourself so high that you believe someone would create a sock, as if your posts carry some type of weight. Sad.



Hmm how did you even know what a sock puppet was? That's Irie sense of how things are my man...



And I thought you were taking your ball and going home? Was that a lie?
 
I never said it was "impossible to read the contract." Good freaking grief. When I responded to stryker and made the phonebook comment it was simply hyperbole. Do you know what that means? I didn't literally mean it was as big as a metro book and didn't think anyone would take that seriously but now I realize some go on constant "gotcha!" snipe hunts. Should I explain each statement so you will know the diff between hyperbolies and literal statements? Let me know what I can do to help you read.

I do not need to lie or maipulate your statements.It is you who is lying.


As for the contract...for the fifth time, stop loss is not a part of the contract.
Yes it is.IF you really served in the military then you should still have a copy look at the back of dd form 4/1.

Why do you ignoring the fact I have repeated that? When I said it wasn't part of the contract I was pointing out it's not a standing order. Obeying the UCMJ is a static part, but not Stop Loss. Thay was my point. Either you can't understand that or you are purposefully being obtuse.

I am not ignoring what you said.You stated stoploss is not part of your contract. I showed you a contract and as far as I know everone joining the military signs this contract.

As for iraq being illegal...nice job ignoring all the evidence I posted, including the fact Perle admitted it was illegal years ago. Is this how it works with you?
Only liberals make the accusations that this war is illegal.Liberals also make the accusations that stoploss is a back door draft.


Change what others say, make false accusations and then ignore factual information out of convenience? No wonder it isn't understand why you are a liberal.

The only one changing what was said is you.

Then you add more lies. I never said "military contracts" are a backdoor draft. I said stop loss is a backdoor draft.

You made all kinds of bogus claims in that post about contract size,slavery,back door draft and about contracts.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057970817-post120.html
Originally Posted by SkyCore
Saying "it's in the contract" is no less silly than when slaveowners justified having slaves and serfs by pointing to a "contract." It's not called a "back-door draft" for nothing.


Then you claim I used mccain as a "conservative" reference point. I never made that claim either. He was simply one person from the linked article that disagrees with the policy.

So you knowingly used liberals and a sell out RINO to make your point? The worst kind of people to use for any kind of opinions about the military.

Go ahead and lie some more because it's funny to watch the pro-war crowd make themselves look so ridiculous they not only ignore every inconvenient fact but they have to continuously lie just to have something to say.

You are the one lying and being inconsistent. What was your MOS in the military,do you have a dd 214 , where did you attend basic training,what was your rank by the time you ETS? What decorations,medals,badges,citations and campaign ribbons does your dd 214 state?
 
Under section 9(c) is where the SL policy may be found and it says:

"In the event of war, my enlistment in the Armed
Forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends,
unless my enlistment is ended sooner by the President of
the United States."
http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/19_03/military_enlistment.pdf

There has be no Declaration of War.
There doesnt need to be a declaration of war for a state of war to exist, or for a soldier to be fighting in a war.

Thus, your slavery argument is unsound.
 
What we have here is a failure to communicate. The UN never authorized the US to take unilateral military action. Once again, from the mouth of our former US Ambassador to the UN regarding Res 1441:


"As we have said on numerous occasions to Council members, this Resolution contains no “hidden triggers” and no “automaticity” with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA, or a member state, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12."
Statement by Ambassador John Negroponte - UN Security Council - Global Policy Forum


Iam providing rock solid evidence proving the US was never given a blanket green light. Do you have any evidence in response?
What you fail to realize is that the US (or any other country) does not need a UNSC resolution in order to 'legally' go to war.
 
When asked about it, you never said no. You still have not answered. I have all the information I need.





It was in your now less than phone book sized contract. YOU FAIL



who is this elected official again?




What ambassadors are infallible? As infallible as your vaunted UN?





Hmm how did you even know what a sock puppet was? That's Irie sense of how things are my man...



And I thought you were taking your ball and going home? Was that a lie?



This is so pathetic. Nobody said the ambassador is infallible but that gets tossed out to ignore the fact 1441 never authorizes unilateral military action. You can't defend your claim so you look for something...anything...no matter how ridiculous to cling to for avoiding admitting you can't support what was said.

Then you imply I must be a sock because I know what a sock is? Rotfl. Yep. This must be the only message board on the entire internet! Lol.

Once again we see you avoid the issues in lieu of focusing more on other posters. Happy sausagepalooza!
 
This is so pathetic. Nobody said the ambassador is infallible but that gets tossed out to ignore the fact 1441 never authorizes unilateral military action. You can't defend your claim so you look for something...anything...no matter how ridiculous to cling to for avoiding admitting you can't support what was said.

Then you imply I must be a sock because I know what a sock is? Rotfl. Yep. This must be the only message board on the entire internet! Lol.

Once again we see you avoid the issues in lieu of focusing more on other posters. Happy sausagepalooza!




So you were lying when you said you were leaving.


Anyways. Are troops murderers? YES OR NO?
 
Except for the fact that we issued a war authorization to invade Iraq, which is just fine and meets the Constitutional requirements.

It's not a declaration, it's authorization to use military force but at no point did we declare war.

You're right. The Constitution doesn't specify any other formats.

The Constitution doesn't specify ANY format.

Argument done.

You lost, I'm bored with it.

You're "bored" because you can't defend your position. The Constitution says that Congress has the power to "To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;". That's what it says, there are no other formats given thus no other format is open to the Congress. Official declaration of war is all they are given to do in terms of authorizations for it. There is no other allowed option, they declare war which is an official declaration of war; the last of which was issued during WW II. You have no concept of history if you keep thinking that we've declared all our wars, Vietnam, Korean, Iraq, etc. The last time war was officially declared was WW II and that's historic fact. You can run around chasing your tail as much as you want, but you can't dispute history no matter how much you'd like to rewrite it.


You need to learn how to read. Start with the Tenth Amendment.

I'm a physicist, I know how to read. I know what the Constitution says and what it means. You're trying to expand powers to the government to justify a war we should never have engaged in. You big government types are dangerous, you'll grant as much power as necessary to the government to engage in improper global management. The founders warned us well against the type of actions you call for. Global meddling, exerting our control over others and dictating terms of existence to the world. That sort of megalomaniac attitude will never drive the Republic to a good place. Just big brother fascism, which seems to be what you favor.

You haven't refuted it. The purpose of reserving the power to declare war to the Congress was to ensure the People's wishes were being followed and that we weren't being dragged into a war by a monomaniacal despot. That purpose was served by Congress's actions prior to our invasion of Iraq.

No, it was to separate power so that the President, who is Commander in Chief, could not declare war himself and act as a king with the nation's military. Of course, in the end there is supposed to be some amount of control over Congress by the People and the States, but in reality that control is extremely limited and lessened through pointless partisanship and blind allegiance to parties.

You could try reading the Federalist Papers sometime. It explains a lot of the Constitution you clearly don't understand at all.

I have read them, along with the Anti-Federalist papers (the actual federalists). I've also read the complete letters and correspondence of Thomas Jefferson and John and Abigail Adams. I'm well read in the writings of the founders and political philosophy. Maybe you should try reading more instead of just grasping to one source pretending it says something it doesn't.


You have a truly misguided view on my view of the Constitution. However, I understand the document, you, and your president, do not.

HAHA, my President. What an ignorant and immature argument. Prove he's my President or let this shine as an example of your lies. You have a truly misguided view on my view of the Constitution and the course this Republic should take.


Argument over.

Won.

Done.

Don't bother to respond further.

It's big of you to admit your defeat.
 
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It's not a declaration, it's authorization to use military force...
Constitutionally speaking, what is the difference?
How is one not the other?
 
Authorization to use force doesn't come with the same restraints as an official declaration of war. To use force doesn't specify enemy, goal, time, etc. But in official declaration of war, you declare war against States. Thus everything is laid out, endgame is known. Surrender of the other side, which is listed in the official declaration of war. Thus in function, a formal declaration of war comes with more constraint than authorization to use military force and is why they are not the same thing.
 
Authorization to use force doesn't come with the same restraints as an official declaration of war.
According to whom/what?
Where does the Constitution specify what must be in a declaration of war?

To use force doesn't specify enemy, goal, time, etc.
Hmmm...
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002'.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION- The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--

(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.
Looks to me like it did... except for timeframe, which obviously can never be specified.

But in official declaration of war, you declare war against States.
The state in question: Iraq.

[In a DoW] everything is laid out, endgame is known. Surrender of the other side, which is listed in the official declaration of war
The DOW against Japan:

JOINT RESOLUTION Declaring that a state of war exists between the Imperial Government of Japan and the Government and the people of the United States and making provisions to prosecute the same.

Whereas the Imperial Government of Japan has committed unprovoked acts of war against the Government and the people of the United States of America: Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the state of war between the United States and the Imperial Government of Japan which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and the President is hereby authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Imperial Government of Japan; and, to bring the conflict to a successful termination, all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

It doesnt seem that this declaration meets your standards, as the endgame is not known, and surrender is not listed as a goal.

In fact, the authorization of force in Iraq is FAR more specific than the DoW against Japan.

Thus in function, a formal declaration of war comes with more constraint than authorization to use military force and is why they are not the same thing.
Not so much, especially as you have laid out the argument.
 
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