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Thread: Water not recognized as a human right

  1. #21
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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Even though bottled water is still part of the larger privatization problem, I think consumer choices can still mitigate its impact; when it comes to water bills and purified water, I also have no qualms because you are paying for a service. My main concern is corporations being given the license to own a lake or a river, preventing public access.

    For instance, if I decide to collect my own water and purify it myself, the privatization of lakes and rivers would prevent that. What happens when governments, under NAFTA, begin giving corporations permits to drain lakes and transport water away from entire regions for their own private profit? This is what I'm against. It has environmental as well as socioeconomic consequences.

    We already saw the consequences of the Aral Sea in Russia. North America has most of the world's fresh water... if we are not careful with the resources we have, they will be squandered away by greed like everything else.

    Let water companies continue billing us for their services, but let the lakes and streams themselves remain public property.

  2. #22
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Let water companies continue billing us for their services, but let the lakes and streams themselves remain public property.
    Water rights are and always have been protected in the U.S. These are commonly known as riparian rights (rivers and streams) and littoral rights (oceans and lakes).

    The details of these rights can be very complex. But the intent is to ensure fair use by all. In other words... you can't simply buy up land around a river then divert all the water into your bottling plant.

    So I'm not sure what all the concern is about.


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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Water rights are and always have been protected in the U.S. These are commonly known as riparian rights (rivers and streams) and littoral rights (oceans and lakes).

    The details of these rights can be very complex. But the intent is to ensure fair use by all. In other words... you can't simply buy up land around a river then divert all the water into your bottling plant.

    So I'm not sure what all the concern is about.

    Great Lakes Water Export,Water Privatization,Bottling Great Lakes Water,Global Water Crisis

    Here are a list of pertinent issues taking place right now.

    Water is being exported from the Great Lakes to all corners of the globe for the private profits of companies like Nestle. It's causing the water table to drop and complaints have already been filed. However, under NAFTA's shared use agreements, corporations are allowed to do this.

    Water is being removed to the detriment of all, only so that a few can profit.

  4. #24
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Water is being removed to the detriment of all, only so that a few can profit.
    Well of course. Battling over water has been going on for thousands of years... which is exactly why riparian and littoral rights were established long ago. When one individual, or corporation, starts taking too much of their 'fair share' they are taken to court by the other users.

    I'm not sure I see anything new here.

    The biggest strain on clean water availability around the globe and in the U.S. is population growth. I didn't see anything at the web site you linked to that suggested the Great Lakes are at risk of being drained by any individual or corporation.



    That said... I'm not sure I understand the overall point. Water has value. That's a reason that we often pay a premium for land adjacent to water. That holds true if we simply want the view... or if we need it to irrigate crops... or to operate a watermill... or to cool a nuclear power plant. Water has value. And if you own land near a lake or river or stream, part of the ownership right you've purchased is the right to enjoy the water. Sometimes owning land near water can prove highly profitable.

    Nothing wrong with that.
    Last edited by Grateful Heart; 03-24-09 at 04:14 AM.

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    Educator bilbus's Avatar
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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Not sure how you can consider water a right. You cant buy a right.
    George W. Bush is a liberal.

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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Its not a right its a resource and the "idea" presented is rather absurd.
    Just the legal ramifications of what it implies alone are mind numbing.


    I'd have no problem with the USA agreeing to it in principle..but agreeing to it by the letter and as binding..
    Hell No.

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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    When one individual, or corporation, starts taking too much of their 'fair share' they are taken to court by the other users.
    Define "fair share".

    Therein lies the problem.

  8. #28
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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Define "fair share".

    Therein lies the problem.
    You want to talk about environmental destruction and waste, just make water a "right". Universal, omnipresent. "Free".

    I don't think advocates of this have a clue what it would mean in the Grand Scheme.

    As a "right" people will use and abuse water. Waste of magnificent proportions would result, just as it does when health care is "Free" (OPM). If it is a Right, how do you take it away when someone is wasting it?

    You cannot... if it is a "Right".

    They could run a garden hose 24/7/365 for 20 years and you could do nothing to stop their "Right". In fact, they could demand MORE water... because it is their "Right".

    If you tell them "NO, you cannot do that, you are denying that person their Right."

    It's a very silly proposition. Water as a "Right".

    And we have pinheads busying themselves with this BS.
    That is a waste... they should get a real job and a life.

    This is what "Rights" look like.
    Omnipresent and equal for all.
    Exception: Military/National Security/Inciting the masses to violence.
    * First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, Freedom of Religion, and of assembly; right to petition

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    * Second Amendment – Right to keep and bear arms.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. [6][7]

    * Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.

    No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

    * Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    * Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.

    No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    * Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

    * Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.

    In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

    * Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    * Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    * Tenth Amendment – Powers of states and people.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-24-09 at 06:00 AM.
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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    Well it's obvious that water has to be under government control in some form. That yes you can choose from buying different kinds of bottle water, but it's of course not feasible to substitute all your tap water with bottle water. That it's a natural monopoly and on a vital resource. Then it comes to poor countries the big international corporations have realized the huge profit of gaining control of this natural monopoly and they have even gone so far has to ban people from collecting the rain water. That this is a practice that needs to be stopped and international treaties are necissary. But of course you still can have a fee on water and implement conservatory measures, but it's shouldn't be a private profit hungry company that has the control to make those decisions.

    CBC News - Indepth: Water Privatization

    World Bank’s ICSID to Hear Case on Bolivia Water Privatization
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 03-24-09 at 08:43 AM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Water not recognized as a human right

    How is water a "right"? :
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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