Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 62

Thread: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

  1. #31
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:53 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,513
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    Then it comes to Africas problem you also have to recognize the responsibility that EU and USA have. That EU and USA gives massive aid to their own agricultural sector. That at the same time they protect their own markets with tarrifs and quotas. So making international trade fairer would do a lot to increase international trade and development. That at the same time aid becomes more efficient and focused.
    Not only that but you have the EU hostile to genetically altered crops, which is a Godsend to the African continent.

    They've been so brainwashed against it, they have basically nixed this as an opportunity for Africa.

    Gentec crops are much like the US beef industry.
    Everyone I know that comes to the US and has steak just cannot believe how great it is.
    It makes EU beef seem like shoe leather.
    The EU prohibits US beef because we use hormones.
    The real reason is if US beef hit the EU market shelves, they'd kill the EU beef industry.

    Africa wouldn't have an immediate impact like this, but eventually they would be significant players and that would be fantastic.

    They could lift themselves out of their hole using the age old method... mastering agriculture first.

    From there all manner of industry and knowledge are necessary, and this launches them forward.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  2. #32
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Already been done. [with some sucess]. We,ve had this thing in the UK for a while called "Present Aid" where instead of buying someone a present for christmas, mothers day or whatever you buy a card representing a goat, a cow, a bicyle or something else useful and the money you pay towards that card goes towards sending the item in question to a family in the third world.

    Present Aid - Buy an ethical gift
    I was personally thinking that If I were to do some sort of aid organization I would teach them the basics to survive and procure their own food and clean water to start.

    Not necessarily just giving them a goat and saying adios, they would probably kill it and eat it immediately afterward.

    Slow development seems to be the only way to stabilize a region, town, etc.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #33
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:53 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,513
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I was personally thinking that If I were to do some sort of aid organization I would teach them the basics to survive and procure their own food and clean water to start.

    Not necessarily just giving them a goat and saying adios, they would probably kill it and eat it immediately afterward.

    Slow development seems to be the only way to stabilize a region, town, etc.
    Agriculture is the first step forward.
    It will help them sustain the population and export for profit.

    That way foreign aid would be moot.
    They would be able to sustain themselves.
    This could be done even with corrupt governments.

    The next step would be to have them expunge corruption and have honest brokers in government exploit their plentiful natural resources in a Western manner.

    I don't mean to be provocative but why haven't the Brothers and Sisters, the descendants of American slaves done more to assist their ancestors?

    I think it is a fair question to ask.

    .
    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-22-09 at 03:11 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  4. #34
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Agriculture is the first step forward.
    It will help them sustain the population and export for profit.

    That way foreign aid would be moot.
    They would be able to sustain themselves.
    This could be done even with corrupt governments.

    The next step would be to have them expunge corruption and have honest brokers in government exploit their plentiful natural resources in a Western manner.
    That is what I was getting to.

    If they are no longer reliant on imported aid and can sustain themselves the government would be a moot point, unless it started raiding the citizens and destroyed their self sufficiency.

    If I had the time I'd seriously consider working with a charity until I could form one of my own. It would be a great way to provide long term help to multiple somebodies and it would just be fun.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #35
    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Seen
    02-17-11 @ 09:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    984

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Foreign Aid, and especially private charity, is not a bad thing. The problem is we're giving them fish instead of teaching them how to fish.

  6. #36
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    11-19-17 @ 06:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,858

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    -- the first thing that that comes to mind is to get rid of the rampant corruption. A monumental task that will take generations if they are lucky--
    Good point, however it's not only African presidents who benefit from corruption. It's also some of the people involved in aid-related business deals - both in Africa and in Europe, there's also problems with dumping cheap goods that have ridiculous subsidies on them so local industry can't compete.

    I worked in different parts of Africa, saw aid good being designed specifically for Western markets shipped to Africa and then sitting useless when spare parts weren't available. Luckily many of the better Aid Agencies realised it was better to look at local technology and local expertise rather than developing expensive kit.

    It's not so easy - some aid is still tied to the idea that country "A" gives aid to country "B" which can be only accessed by buying from country "A." That means aid is another form of subsidy on country "A's" local industry. Those products aren't always useful or really designed for such a hostile climate.

    When I worked in Nigeria, I met US Peace Corps volunteers whose aid contributions were always based on "projects" i.e. digging a well / putting in some resource - but not always where it was needed or wanted. A lot of Aid is top-down and the locals may be awed by the fabulous foreigners who come , do some project and leave and that is about it.

    Some countries are developing - Ghana, Tunisia, Egypt, Botswana for example but others are sinking horribly. I don't think there's any real answer to Africa's problem. The huge mineral resources are an answer but also the problem - in Botswana the diamonds and gold resources are being used to develop the country (despite crippling Aids problems) and there is a relatively high standard of living however in Nigeria and Congo, western countries are heavily involved in exploiting mineral resources and corruption is rife - both by African leaders and local heads as well as many of the Westerners and Easterners (you'd be surprised at the numbers of Palestinians / Filipinoes and Koreans working there) working with them on huge contracts.

  7. #37
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Good point, however it's not only African presidents who benefit from corruption. It's also some of the people involved in aid-related business deals - both in Africa and in Europe, there's also problems with dumping cheap goods that have ridiculous subsidies on them so local industry can't compete.

    I worked in different parts of Africa, saw aid good being designed specifically for Western markets shipped to Africa and then sitting useless when spare parts weren't available. Luckily many of the better Aid Agencies realised it was better to look at local technology and local expertise rather than developing expensive kit.

    It's not so easy - some aid is still tied to the idea that country "A" gives aid to country "B" which can be only accessed by buying from country "A." That means aid is another form of subsidy on country "A's" local industry. Those products aren't always useful or really designed for such a hostile climate.

    When I worked in Nigeria, I met US Peace Corps volunteers whose aid contributions were always based on "projects" i.e. digging a well / putting in some resource - but not always where it was needed or wanted. A lot of Aid is top-down and the locals may be awed by the fabulous foreigners who come , do some project and leave and that is about it.

    Some countries are developing - Ghana, Tunisia, Egypt, Botswana for example but others are sinking horribly. I don't think there's any real answer to Africa's problem. The huge mineral resources are an answer but also the problem - in Botswana the diamonds and gold resources are being used to develop the country (despite crippling Aids problems) and there is a relatively high standard of living however in Nigeria and Congo, western countries are heavily involved in exploiting mineral resources and corruption is rife - both by African leaders and local heads as well as many of the Westerners and Easterners (you'd be surprised at the numbers of Palestinians / Filipinoes and Koreans working there) working with them on huge contracts.
    Would you agree then that teaching the locals how to survive with what they have on hand is better than just handing out food and high technology?

    How about basic agriculture techniques (raising animals, crops)?

    How does one go to Africa to help and what group would you go with to get the best results for the locals?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #38
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    11-19-17 @ 06:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,858

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Would you agree then that teaching the locals how to survive with what they have on hand is better than just handing out food and high technology?
    There are already agencies doing this - local technology based on local resources being developed by locals. I watched a brilliant program about pouch rats in Mozambique being trained to sniff out mines - and now there is a technology we could benefit from because these rats can sniff out all sorts of things - including disease.

    YouTube - Rats detecting landmines


    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    --How does one go to Africa to help and what group would you go with to get the best results for the locals?
    That's one of the hardest questions there is - depends on your skillset and your tolerance to the local conditions where you go. Some places are just murderously humid while in others you will bake dry - and that was just in one country.

    Oxfam / VSO / UNICEF / Médecins Sans Frontières are just a few of the reputable agencies.

    I know VSO have recruiting offices in Holland and even in Canada now as well as the original one in London. I did VSO in 1992 - 1995, you get amazing healthcare cover (including emergency medical evacuation) free but you only get the equivalent salary to the people you work with. I went from £1000 a week in London to £50 a month in Nigeria but never regretted it.

    It's like most things - do your research first. Never go alone - the proper agencies know the ground, know the risks and more importantly, can get you out within hours if things go bad.

  9. #39
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    There are already agencies doing this - local technology based on local resources being developed by locals. I watched a brilliant program about pouch rats in Mozambique being trained to sniff out mines - and now there is a technology we could benefit from because these rats can sniff out all sorts of things - including disease.

    YouTube - Rats detecting landmines
    That is a great way to do things in my opinion.

    I do think that building a pyramid starting at the base is the best way to go.

    I think they could make a lot better improvements if they would just stick with local skill building and reinforcement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    That's one of the hardest questions there is - depends on your skillset and your tolerance to the local conditions where you go. Some places are just murderously humid while in others you will bake dry - and that was just in one country.

    Oxfam / VSO / UNICEF / Médecins Sans Frontières are just a few of the reputable agencies.

    I know VSO have recruiting offices in Holland and even in Canada now as well as the original one in London. I did VSO in 1992 - 1995, you get amazing healthcare cover (including emergency medical evacuation) free but you only get the equivalent salary to the people you work with. I went from £1000 a week in London to £50 a month in Nigeria but never regretted it.

    It's like most things - do your research first. Never go alone - the proper agencies know the ground, know the risks and more importantly, can get you out within hours if things go bad.
    I'm in the south east U.S. so I'm not sure if there is anything here, do they provide the plane tickets?

    I can adapt to any climate I'm sure of that.

    I have a wide array of skills from primitive living (although I haven't practiced much) to light construction.

    I wouldn't mind getting a view of what in my eye's is the real world.

    How did the locals you worked with treat you?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #40
    Sage
    Infinite Chaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Last Seen
    11-19-17 @ 06:45 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,858

    Re: Why Foreign Aid Is Hurting Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is a great way to do things in my opinion.

    I do think that building a pyramid starting at the base is the best way to go.

    I think they could make a lot better improvements if they would just stick with local skill building and reinforcement.
    You'd be surprised just how widespread the use of local technology is.

    I was originally born in Kenya - we moved to Zambia when I was 4 and the local kids made amazing metal wireframe cars that you pushed and steered in front of you. I've never seen such amazing but cheap toys. When I worked in Nigeria there were other VSOs from a construction background teaching locals how to make bricks with mud and straw.

    The locals loved being taught independence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    -- I'm in the south east U.S. so I'm not sure if there is anything here, do they provide the plane tickets?
    Yes, but you would have to go to training events first - probably in Canada and then be flown from there to the country you get stationed in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    -- I have a wide array of skills from primitive living (although I haven't practiced much) to light construction.
    You'd go down well, do you get BBC programmes in the US? You might want to watch out for a guy called Bruce Parry (ex Royal Marine) - he does primitive living programmes. Another is Ray Mears - both do survival based on indigenous lifestyles and techniques.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    --How did the locals you worked with treat you?
    Amazingly well, they could never do enough to show how much they appreciated your being there. People really put themselves out for you but it's also charmingly naive and they are vulnerable to exploitation for it.

    It's all so fragile though - that's the sad thing. I've lived in many parts of Africa and one thing that was common was the one thing that renders Africa vulnerable yet noble at the same time - absolute respect for elders. It's why people like Mugabe will get away with what he's done - by age alone but also by position an elder is "always right" never to be questioned. It's why so many leaders become corrupt and dictators, the position of trust is like absolute power and you know the old saying aboute absolute power.

    Put the wrong person in charge in Ghana or Botswana and it will all go backwards so quickly - it's how Mugabe reduced Zimbabwe to absolute poverty within 25 years: and it could happen anywhere else so easily.

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •