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Thread: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

  1. #21
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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    How many right wingers want a nuclear plant in their backyards?
    ...

    Yes because a nuclear plant in your backyard is the same as 500k acres of empty desert converted to wind and solar generation are just SOO alike.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    We could learn a thing or two from Spain. Tweak any problems and run with it.

    Feed-in tariffs guaranteed in Spain for solar photovoltaic power and the government's ambitious plans to expand the solar market have led to a solar boom in the country. Solar companies from abroad pour into the Iberian Peninsula as investors and discover it to be a ripe sales market.

    Mixed Review for Spain's Solar Energy Market - Renewable Energy World
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    How many right wingers want a nuclear plant in their backyards?
    This right-winger wouldn't mind!

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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    We could learn a thing or two from Spain. Tweak any problems and run with it.

    Feed-in tariffs guaranteed in Spain for solar photovoltaic power and the government's ambitious plans to expand the solar market have led to a solar boom in the country. Solar companies from abroad pour into the Iberian Peninsula as investors and discover it to be a ripe sales market.

    Mixed Review for Spain's Solar Energy Market - Renewable Energy World
    News from Cambridge UK
    Another view of this situation was given by Dr Gabriel Calzada, Associate Professor of Economics at King Juan Carlos University during the Heartland Institute's climate change conference in New York last week. In contrast to the Times article, the title was "Spain's new energy economy: Boom and bust of the Spanish renewable miracle".

    According to his figures, Spain has increased its emissions by 40% since signing the Kyoto protocol. And yet, in contrast to the government estimate in 2004 that emissions permits would cost Spanish companies no more than 85 million euros annually, the real cost is now estimated at between 3 billion (government statement) and 15 billion euros (Price Waterhouse Coopers).

    As for renewable energy, the rapid growth of wind power is not surprising. For the first 15 years, a subsidy of 90% over the market price has been payable, reducing to 80% thereafter. And for solar, in which Spain is also seen as a leader, subsidies have amounted to 575% of the market price for 25 years, then declining to "only" 460%. With returns of 12 to 20%, the take up has been understandably high (indeed, there have been waiting lists).

    The result is that installed wind capacity is just over 10% of the total for the country, although it is unclear whether this is theoretical or makes allowance for a realistic efficiency factor. The buoyant market has created around 50,000 jobs, but these are nearly all for installing new capacity and so do not provide long term employment. And they come at a cost: a renewables subsidy of 2.6bn euros in 2007, with about one third of the total going to the solar sector, which represents only 0.7% of installed capacity and about half the total number of jobs.

    The costs are such that the government has now had to reduce the subsidy for solar power by 30% and cap the amount of new capacity to be installed. This softening of support resulted in 10,000 job losses. Further reductions of subsidies put 40,000 more green jobs at risk. Energy prices are rising to cover losses in the distribution industry, and generators have announced the cancellation of 4.5bn euros of annual investment because they also pay an effective subsidy for renewable energy through the controlled price to the consumer.

    So, with Kyoto emissions targets almost certain to be significantly overshot and the bubble of green-collar jobs now burst, the Spanish government must be wondering how it managed to waste so much money for so little reward. It is difficult to see an economic recovery in Europe (or the USA) being led by a boom in long-term green-collar jobs.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    If we got solar energy from "an area of the Southwestern desert 100 miles on a side, that would be enough, in and of itself, to provide 100 percent of all the electricity needs for the United States of America in a full year."

    Al Gore on Wednesday, January 28th, 2009 in a Senate committee hearing


    Pretty bold idea.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    Exactly Mr. V, that's why I said tweak any problems then run with it.

    Europe is building the majority of systems right now. We coulkd take a small percentage of manufacturing without anyones panties getting in a twist. Leaving us with viable jobs in retail/installation.

    It's getting the idiots in Washington to get on board with the tax breaks. Huge tax breaks result in instant job creation which equals growth/revenue.

    Personally, I see solar as a partner with electric cars. We'll need to lesson the drain on our power plants in order to add electric cars.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    From what I've read about solar or wind power generating systems,all of them are secondary power systems.This is something that most people know.

    We supposedly have more oil in the U.S. then in Saudi Arabia,just the environmentalist don't want us to use it.

    Nuclear power is by far our best and cleanest form of practical power for the dollar,but the environmentalist don't like that either.

    You could kill 50 million people and the environmentalist would not have a problem with this.But tear up 2 or 3 square miles of land and the plants and the animals living there, and God forbid they would scream bloody murder.

    We need to be free of oil dependency from foreign governments,and this is easily obtainable ,except for the environmentalist and the Department of Energy which has done almost 0 in their job scope to make us less dependent on foreign oil,except waste billions of dollars every year.

    Common sense would dictate that wind and solar won't work,you need to do something else,this isn't rocket science.

    My point is make this a National Security issue and tell the environmentalist to piss off.

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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    Quote Originally Posted by rudedog View Post
    From what I've read about solar or wind power generating systems,all of them are secondary power systems.This is something that most people know.

    We supposedly have more oil in the U.S. then in Saudi Arabia,just the environmentalist don't want us to use it.

    Nuclear power is by far our best and cleanest form of practical power for the dollar,but the environmentalist don't like that either.

    You could kill 50 million people and the environmentalist would not have a problem with this.But tear up 2 or 3 square miles of land and the plants and the animals living there, and God forbid they would scream bloody murder.

    We need to be free of oil dependency from foreign governments,and this is easily obtainable ,except for the environmentalist and the Department of Energy which has done almost 0 in their job scope to make us less dependent on foreign oil,except waste billions of dollars every year.

    Common sense would dictate that wind and solar won't work,you need to do something else,this isn't rocket science.

    My point is make this a National Security issue and tell the environmentalist to piss off.
    Agreed.

    Two months into this administration and the only message from the politicians in regard to energy is Feinstein saying no more solar.

    We could've had solar tax breaks in one of those worthless bills, and been breaking ground on new nuclear plants. Start constructing them in the states with the least amount of enviroloon resistance first.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

  9. #29
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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    Quote Originally Posted by rudedog View Post
    From what I've read about solar or wind power generating systems,all of them are secondary power systems.This is something that most people know.

    We supposedly have more oil in the U.S. then in Saudi Arabia,just the environmentalist don't want us to use it.
    We should employ whatever we have and whatever is cheaper.

    The early adopters (rich people generally) will help bring down the cost of the more expensive "green" energy products on there own.

    Quote Originally Posted by rudedog View Post
    Nuclear power is by far our best and cleanest form of practical power for the dollar,but the environmentalist don't like that either.
    It is probably the most practical but also remember that we have a huge supply of coal and we should use the coal plants already in existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by rudedog View Post
    You could kill 50 million people and the environmentalist would not have a problem with this.But tear up 2 or 3 square miles of land and the plants and the animals living there, and God forbid they would scream bloody murder.
    Probably true.

    Quote Originally Posted by rudedog View Post
    We need to be free of oil dependency from foreign governments,and this is easily obtainable ,except for the environmentalist and the Department of Energy which has done almost 0 in their job scope to make us less dependent on foreign oil,except waste billions of dollars every year.

    Common sense would dictate that wind and solar won't work,you need to do something else,this isn't rocket science.
    We should use whatever energy supply that is readily available and cheap.

    Foreign (Mostly Canadian) oil is just fine for now.

    I agree that we shouldn't prevent drilling anywhere considered part of the U.S. territory though.

    Quote Originally Posted by rudedog View Post
    My point is make this a National Security issue and tell the environmentalist to piss off.
    It is really a national security issue. They need our money and we need their oil, either one of us would be screwed if one suddenly withdrew.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Feinstein: "Don't Spoil Our Desert With Solar Panels"??

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    "If we got solar energy from "an area of the Southwestern desert 100 miles on a side, that would be enough, in and of itself, to provide 100 percent of all the electricity needs for the United States of America in a full year."
    Same surface area on the Moon would provide nine times the entire planet's yearly consumption.

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