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Thread: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The product of Carter/Obama diplomacy.
    How so?

    An appeal to moderates by demonstrating he has respect and is willing to talk is a good move. It will put internal pressure on Tehran from it's citizens. Iran has a large moderate population that wants closer ties with the West, defies their own government, and embraces Western culture. In addition, if talks breakdown Obama will have the moral high ground when he goes to the world for support in military action to stop them from attaining nukes. Winning over the moderates is central to the war on terror.
    Last edited by Slevin; 03-22-09 at 07:16 PM.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by Slevin View Post
    How so?

    An appeal to moderates by demonstrating he has respect and is willing to talk is a good move. It will put internal pressure on Tehran from it's citizens. Iran has a large moderate population that wants closer ties with the West,
    Prove it, because the last time I checked the pre-screened candidate that they selected was Ahmadinejad, there were more moderate choices even from out of the list of candidates selected by the Mullahs.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Prove it, because the last time I checked the pre-screened candidate that they selected was Ahmadinejad, there were more moderate choices even from out of the list of candidates selected by the Mullahs.
    Prove which statement specifically?

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by Slevin View Post
    Prove which statement specifically?
    Prove that Iran has a large moderate population that wants closer ties to the west who can in anyway counterbalance their radicalized population which wants death for gays, apostates, and adulterers. I mean with "moderates" like Khatami, who needs radicals?

    I think the problem here lies in the definition of "moderate" which to me means liberal secularists who want full and equal rights for ever segment of society, and in that regard I would say that Iran has a very very tiny moderate population.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 03-22-09 at 08:13 PM.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Prove that Iran has a large moderate population that wants closer ties to the west
    BBC NEWS | Business | Youth shapes Iran's economy

    Iran: the next revolution? Iran's population is mostly young, educated, and frustrated with the country's social restrictions. And they're starting to make noise | New York Times Upfront | Find Articles at BNET

    Iran's young people are disenchanted with the lack of freedom offered by the current regime | Children of the revolution | The Economist

    A Different Face of Iran - washingtonpost.com

    Iran's young reformers | open Democracy News Analysis
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    who can in anyway counterbalance their radicalized population which wants death for gays, apostates, and adulterers.
    No doubt they have plenty of radicals in Iran. There is however a moderate population that exists throughout the Muslim world and in Iran, and appealing to them is a key tactic in the war on terror.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures


    I didn't say that they don't have a moderate population, I was asserting that I don't think they have a large moderate population, what I'm getting at is that many Islamists get labeled moderates simply because they don't endorse offensive Jihad, however, they still support sharia based theocratic governance, and in my book that is anything but moderate.

    The point being is that the problem goes much deeper than political freedom as demonstrated in places like Afghanistan where even when the people are granted free and fair elections they choose to elect legislators who continue to promote such backwards jurisprudence as death for apostasy, the problem is deeply rooted within the culture of the Arab and Muslim world and I really don't see anyway to bring that world into line with the 21st century, it's not just the governments in the region it's the people under these governments as well.

    Now I agree with you that there are moderates in Iran like the guy from your second article, I would consider him to be an actual moderate as he promoted a separation between Mosque and state and would assume that he would flatly reject all forms of Sharia jurisprudence, and it's true that he is our ally and we need more people like him in the Muslim world but it's my opinion (and one backed by polling data from the Pew global attitudes study) that he is in a tiny minority and that my friend is the problem and a very serious one at that.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    and it's true that he is our ally and we need more people like him in the Muslim world
    Then we agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    i] my friend is the problem and a very serious one at that.
    And one that is better addressed with the overtures in the OP than the tactics of the previous administration.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Support for the "moderates" doesn't come in the form of overtures to the Supreme Leader, it comes in the form of money and guns to organizations like the PMOI who are actually attempting to overthrow the Mullahs and who advocate free elections, gender equality, equal rights for ethnic, religious minorities, and free market economics but like I said these actual reformers don't have a wide base of support within Iran. The Mullahs are never going to relinquish one iota of their power to the people unless they are made to do so at the point of a gun. But you're right about the previous administration too as like the geniuses that they are they didn't take the PMOI off the state departments designated terrorist organization list which will prevent any meaningful non-clandestine funding.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Support for the "moderates" doesn't come in the form of overtures to the Supreme Leader, it comes in the form of money and guns to organizations like the PMOI who are actually attempting to overthrow the Mullahs and who advocate free elections, gender equality, equal rights for ethnic, religious minorities, and free market economics but like I said these actual reformers don't have a wide base of support within Iran. The Mullahs are never going to relinquish one iota of their power to the people unless they are made to do so at the point of a gun. But you're right about the previous administration too as like the geniuses that they are they didn't take the PMOI off the state departments designated terrorist organization list which will prevent any meaningful non-clandestine funding.
    Interesting. It does depend on what the goal is. I doubt Obama's goal was to overthrow the establishment. In my opinion, Obama has done more to improve relations with Muslims in his first 60 days than the previous administration did in eight years.

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    Re: Iran's supreme leader dismisses Obama overtures

    Quote Originally Posted by Slevin View Post
    Interesting. It does depend on what the goal is. I doubt Obama's goal was to overthrow the establishment. In my opinion, Obama has done more to improve relations with Muslims in his first 60 days than the previous administration did in eight years.
    Well he did have the backing of such moderate reformers as Hamas prior to the election and now he wants to talk to the moderate Taliban (lmfao what ever the hell that is), but with friends like these? But ya I see how Obama is helping prop up the moderates by giving $9 million for "aid" to Gaza freeing up assets for Hamas to buy more armaments, negotiating with the Taliban, and making overtures to the Supreme Leader. But just one small little caveat to this brilliant foreign policy, the moderates get their heads chopped off by Obama's new negotiating partners. They're a little like oil and water.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 03-22-09 at 10:53 PM.

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