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Thread: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

  1. #51
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    You want to separate soul and body to try to make your point--and I already said repeatedly, the two are incomplete without the other. The nature of woman is receptive, and the nature of man is generative--but for the human race to be complete, we need both. What man has that woman does not have for the position of Pope is the calling. Men, and only men, are called to the priesthood. And only 266 men in the whole world have been called to be Pope. Does that mean all the other men in history have been discriminated against?
    Wow, you really danced around this one. Circular reasoning at it's finest. Men are the only ones that recieve the calling. Why, because they are men.

    The nature of women is receptive? A man must have written this. Is it because of the innie genetalia. I would think being receptive would be good for receiving the word of God. Why would a Pope need to generate anything?

    And to answer your question at the end, I would say no, not all men have been discriminated against. Before John Paul II, it was 455 years since a non-Italian was pope. Before Benedict XVI, there hadn't been a German Pope in almost a 1,000 years. And Miltiades seems to be the only pope that had enough skin pigment to be considered a minority. That was almost 1,700 years ago.

    Italian men haven't been discriminated against.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    If a woman claims she has been called by God, who are men of the church to question her? Since these callings can't be "authenticated" in any way they're moot.
    Women ARE called by God to do many things within the Church. Being a priest is NOT one of them.

    All of the women who feel they've been called would disagree with you.
    Are they truly being called by God to be priests, or are they misinterpreting God's call to be somewhere else OR are they substituting their own desires and misinterpreting it as God's call?

    [/quote]No, as it's clear there was no gender discrimination. In the case of the church refusing to employ a female priestess on the basis of her vagina there could be no clearer more straightforward example of gender discrimination.[/QUOTE]

    Fine, there is gender discrimination in being a priest. However, there are plenty of roles for women in the Church. The Church is following the example of Christ and the guidence of the Holy Spirit. If you don't like it, TOUGH! Then don't be Catholic. Your choice. No one is holding a gun to your head.
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Here I was trying to do something fancy with the linkage. Here is a regular link.

    WorldWide Religious News-Priests preferred to doctors for cure in Arunachal
    Thanks for the fixed link. I didn't see anything about the priests being Catholic in that article.
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    JPII summed up the power that women hold in becomeing who they are in this portion of his apostolic letter MULIERIS DIGNITATEM. I agree totally with his view.

    Mulieris Dignitatem, John Paul II, 15 August 1988 - Apostolic Letter
    The personal resources of femininity are certainly no less than the resources of masculinity: they are merely different. Hence a woman, as well as a man, must understand her "fulfilment" as a person, her dignity and vocation, on the basis of these resources, according to the richness of the femininity which she received on the day of creation and which she inherits as an expression of the "image and likeness of God" that is specifically hers. The inheritance of sin suggested by the words of the Bible - "Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you" - can be conquered only by following this path. The overcoming of this evil inheritance is, generation after generation, the task of every human being, whether woman or man. For whenever man is responsible for offending a woman's personal dignity and vocation, he acts contrary to his own personal dignity and his own vocation.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    How do you know she's mistaken? As society has evolved and allowed women to do more so may have God. Maybe in biblical times God acted in a certain way that he might not act today. There's no way church men "know" a woman has not received the calling unless they are claiming an actual angel was sent to them and told them to bar women from the door.
    The Church relies not only on the evidence of the Scriptures, but also the guidence of the Holy Spirit. The combination of the two tells the Church that the priesthood is only reserved for a small, select group of men. If I feel I am called to the priesthood (or deaconate - as I am married), as Felicity has pointed out, I would go through an extensive period of discernment and then formation (four years for the permanent deaconate) before Holy Orders are given. At any time during that period, the Church may exclude the candidate or the candidate himself may determine that the calling wasn't genuine.


    Nor is it run by God as is easily evidenced by the atrocities that have taken place in church. It is run by men. It is men keeping women out, not God.
    The Church is run by people, and as such, is inherently flawed. However, we trust the Holy Spirit to guide us in matters of Faith.

    If it takes a discernment process to evaluate whether or not a man's calling was real I see no reason to not offer the same discernment process to women.
    Because the Church, though its interpretation of the Scriptures and the intent of the Holy Spirit, has already determined that this is not God's intent. The Church is NOT closed to women. There are plenty of vitally important roles in the Church that women can and DO perform. However, the priesthood is NOT among them.
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    It should not matter if people criticize the Pope. The Pope is a man. Man is fallible. He will make decisions that some disagree with and there's nothing wrong with a little bit of dissension.
    Sure, but there are some people on here (not you) who have a knee-jerk reaction of criticizing the Church that is born of bigotry.
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Fine, there is gender discrimination in being a priest. However, there are plenty of roles for women in the Church. The Church is following the example of Christ and the guidence of the Holy Spirit. If you don't like it, TOUGH! Then don't be Catholic. Your choice. No one is holding a gun to your head.
    Not since the Inquisition anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Not since the Inquisition anyway.
    Sure, but there are some people on here (not you) who have a knee-jerk reaction of criticizing the Church that is born of bigotry.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    What is laughable is spouting absurd accusations from a position of ignorance. The teaching of the Church is that man and woman are equal in dignity, though different in their nature. Your "knowing" is blind bigotry.
    Is that another way of saying I just don't understand the reasoning behind the discrimination?

    I can live with that. I don't tolerate discrimination; even if it's daftly asserted it comes from above.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Women ARE called by God to do many things within the Church. Being a priest is NOT one of them.
    That's discrimination.

    Are they truly being called by God to be priests, or are they misinterpreting God's call to be somewhere else OR are they substituting their own desires and misinterpreting it as God's call?
    Same could be asked of many men within the church's hierarchy.

    Fine, there is gender discrimination in being a priest. However, there are plenty of roles for women in the Church. The Church is following the example of Christ and the guidence of the Holy Spirit. If you don't like it, TOUGH! Then don't be Catholic. Your choice. No one is holding a gun to your head.
    Sure. But I'm free to comment on it all I like.

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