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Thread: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Oh--and BTW--no one reforms herself...The Grace of God works in our lives and through acccepting that grace we are able to be reformed.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    What's wrong with being a penitent? I have committed all 7 deadly sins--I am a sinner. I am also a penitent. Mary was too. Psssssst....we all are.

    He was more than a little enthusiastic in his pointing that out about her--but HEY! Pope Gregory was a sinner in need of penance and redemption TOO!
    Sure but she was painted as the sinner of sinners. Celebrated because she was proof that even the most sinful of sinners could find redemption. Roman Church and the Orthodox Church were split on this for years and years. The Orthodox church continued to teach about Mary Magdalene as a good women, to be looked up to, to be a role model. While the Roman Catholics celebrated her as the woman who sinned the most, the height of female sinning. Pope Gregory's sermon was not a little thing where he briefly mentioned Magdalene as a sinner among many sinners. It was a speech about morality. A sermon about the worst sins man can be capable of and Mary was to be celebrated for one reason and one reason only; she somehow overcame her horrible sinful vile nature. To brush it off as a casual, "Oh yeah Mary was a sinner, like we're all sinners, " is to minimize what Pope Gregory did to her reputation. While the Orthodox Church continued to view her as an honorable woman who lived an honorable life she became the whore of the west. Even in art she was painted as a topless whore, repetitively. The Roman Catholic church KNEW that the Orthodox Church did not agree with this portrayal. The Roman Catholic Church also KNEW Gregory wrongly morphed different Marys into one Mary. They knew there was no evidence her life was full of anymore sin than the average woman and yet they allowed her to continue on with this false reputation until finally it got out that Mary Magdalene was no whore, there was no evidence that she was an outrageously sinful woman, etc. When confronted with this, the church backed down and corrected her reputation to save their own lying face.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Misogyny means "woman hate."

    misos "hatred" (from misein "to hate") + gyne "woman"

    Simple sexism is not misogyny.

    You guys are throwing the word Woman-hater at the Church and you don't know what you mean?

    Do you wonder why it might be offensive to accuse a whole religion of hate, if you really only mean that there was "typical sexist views?" That is a TOTALLY different charge than misogyny!
    Oh so you'll agree that the church is sexist, was sexist, always has been sexist but not that they're misogynistic?

    What male saint was made out to be a wild outrageous whore with not a shred of evidence?

    Do you honestly think it was a coincidence that Mary Magdalene was a giant whore for so long? That she was represented as a whore in religious art? Was it really a coincidence that when a pope needed a "sinner of all sinners" he choose a woman? I don't believe that for a second. If it was a mistake, it wouldn't have taken over 1000 years to correct.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Oh so you'll agree that the church is sexist, was sexist, always has been sexist but not that they're misogynistic?
    What are you not understanding about the nature of the Church? The Church is far more than the individuals in the Church. The problem is you calling "the Church" misogynistic or even merely sexist rather than putting the error where it belongs--on the misogynistic or sexist individual/s.


    What male saint was made out to be a wild outrageous whore with not a shred of evidence?
    Um...there is evidence that Mary had "seven demons" cast out of her and she was a sinner like all of us. Augustine was quite the man-whore while his momma Monica prayed incessantly for his conversion.

    Do you honestly think it was a coincidence that Mary Magdalene was a giant whore for so long? That she was represented as a whore in religious art? Was it really a coincidence that when a pope needed a "sinner of all sinners" he choose a woman? I don't believe that for a second. If it was a mistake, it wouldn't have taken over 1000 years to correct.
    And you are the one with the issue concerning it all. So what? She's in heaven--Mary Magdalen gives hope to those lost in sin of all kinds. I bet she's darned pleased that she can be of such service. I hope I get a chance to ask her how she feels about it someday.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Part of Pope Gregory's sermon,


    "It is clear, brothers, that the woman previously used the unguent to perfume her flesh in forbidden acts. "

    It was not clear. None of it. Pope Gregory in some perverted fashion went on about the oils she used to make her hair seductive. The body oils she used to tempt men. The church now denies that Mary Magdalene was the same Mary from whom demons were cast. Furthermore, there's evidence that the casting of demons was the curing of ailments. So even if Mary Magdalene was the same Mary from whom demons were cast out it was intellectually dishonest of Pope Gregory to paint her as a whore.

    As to the so what? Mary Magdalene is one of the most important female figures in the Bible. The fact that the church attempted to diminish her by purposely turning her into a whore is no small thing. She was a powerful woman who walked at Christ's side and the church refashioned her into a sinful perfumed whore. And you say, so what?
    Last edited by talloulou; 03-24-09 at 01:33 PM.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yeah? How about his statements about keeping your pants zipped up outside of a committed marital relationship, which will save people's lives?
    Yeah, that stinking Nazi, what does he know?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    The fact that the church attempted to diminish her by purposely turning her into a whore is no small thing.:
    You are being ridiculous. Pope Gregory is not "the Church."

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    You are being ridiculous. Pope Gregory is not "the Church."
    Oh ok. Let's just pretend the Pope isn't the earthly head of the Roman Catholic Church, the head of the state when it comes to the Vatican, and the authority on Church doctrine and leadership. While we're at it we can also pretend that popes from long ago had even less power than popes of today and that they didn't interfere with politics and have close interaction and sway with monarchs and government.

    That will all be fitting in the overall delusion that the Church was never misogynistic.
    Last edited by talloulou; 03-24-09 at 03:11 PM.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Oh ok. Let's just pretend the Pope isn't the earthly head of the Roman Catholic Church, the head of the state when it comes to the Vatican, and the authority on Church doctrine and leadership. While we're at it we can also pretend that popes from long ago had even less power than popes of today and that they didn't interfere with politics and have close interaction and sway with monarchs and government.

    That will all be fitting in the overall delusion that the Church was never misogynistic.
    You clearly lack understanding of the role of the pope, the difference between an individual and the Church, sexism and misogyny, and theology and politics.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Misogyny means "woman hate."

    misos "hatred" (from misein "to hate") + gyne "woman"

    Simple sexism is not misogyny.

    You guys are throwing the word Woman-hater at the Church and you don't know what you mean?

    Do you wonder why it might be offensive to accuse a whole religion of hate, if you really only mean that there was "typical sexist views?" That is a TOTALLY different charge than misogyny!
    Accept my apology. Misogyny was clearly the wrong word for me to use. I don't mean that the Church hates women. I merely meant that the Church is sexist.

    My bad.
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