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Thread: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

  1. #151
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    It's basically saying, "Yeah obviously we use to think women were crap but nevertheless this had no influence on pastoral activity!!!" As if. Like that's even possible.
    Yeah--cuz like Thomas Jefferson-that racist bastard who raped his slaves--like he couldn't possibley fashion a solid document asserting freedom and justice for all and have it be real and true because like --he was a slime-ball racist pig, so the whole US must also be founded upon inequality and racism and hatred because the founders were.

    Sometimes leaders are effective despite their personal flaws.


    None the less, back to Pope Gregory and his mistake you're excusing him for. Aren't popes supposed to be infallible????
    Not in everything they say. I KNOW you've been told that before.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Yeah--cuz like Thomas Jefferson-that racist bastard who raped his slaves--like he couldn't possibley fashion a solid document asserting freedom and justice for all and have it be real and true because like --he was a slime-ball racist pig, so the whole US must also be founded upon inequality and racism and hatred because the founders were.
    What the hell does that have to do with anything? If you're effectively saying folks need to be looked at and judged in the context of their historical environment; I completely agree. One would expect that the church of the past was misogynistic. You are the only person I know who has ever even attempted to claim that isn't true. Most people accept it as falling in line with the times. Even the vatican understands that women within the church have long been written about with prejudice. Yet, you deny it. Make excuses for it.

    In any event I can overlook that from a "It was in the past, " position easily if it didn't seem to still hold true today.

    Not in everything they say. I KNOW you've been told that before.
    Actually I know very little about the pope as my mother never paid him much mind. She's Catholic but has an unfavorable opinion of the whole "pope" business.

    Being irreligious, ultimately I don't care. But the church does have a misogynistic past both in literature and action and they are not up to date in their way of thinking about women even today.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    bwahahaha A direct quote from:
    INTER INSIGNIORES
    Declaration on the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood (15 October 1976)
    Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
    Did you read that document? It is very clear as to many of the theological reasons for the male priesthood--but no...you'd rather pick ONE sentence that references that some people within the Church have inappropriately characterized women, and you want that to somehow mean that the Church herself is misogynistic. What a load of crap. The Church can't acknowledge humans within her ranks who fail to live and speak in an appropriate way with regard to women, because to admit that you then swoop in and claim since some people fail, the whole Church is misogynistic. BALONEY! If your dad was a lying cheat, does that mean YOU are? --or that your whole family is, or that those are the values that the talloulou's live by since her family has shown to fail in a particular regard? Not hardly.

  4. #154
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post

    Even the vatican understands that women within the church have long been written about with prejudice. Yet, you deny it. Make excuses for it.
    I'm taking issue with your over-generalization.
    In any event I can overlook that from a "It was in the past, " position easily if it didn't seem to still hold true today.
    There are people in the Church STILL TODAY that hold anti-woman positions. THAT does not mean that the CHurch does--it means THAT INDIVIDUAL does. The Church is far more than some of the people in it--even if they are influential people.
    Last edited by Felicity; 03-23-09 at 03:35 PM.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Did you read that document? It is very clear as to many of the theological reasons for the male priesthood--but no...you'd rather pick ONE sentence that references that some people within the Church have inappropriately characterized women, and you want that to somehow mean that the Church herself is misogynistic. What a load of crap. The Church can't acknowledge humans within her ranks who fail to live and speak in an appropriate way with regard to women, because to admit that you then swoop in and claim since some people fail, the whole Church is misogynistic. BALONEY! If your dad was a lying cheat, does that mean YOU are? --or that your whole family is, or that those are the values that the talloulou's live by since her family has shown to fail in a particular regard? Not hardly.
    The church was misogynistic. I'll allow that today the level of misogyny remaining is somewhat debatable. Clearly there's not total equality. The fact that the Church has misogynistic roots though is completely non-debatable. You can't debate facts.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    The church was misogynistic. I'll allow that today the level of misogyny remaining is somewhat debatable. Clearly there's not total equality. The fact that the Church has misogynistic roots though is completely non-debatable. You can't debate facts.
    I deny that is true. I do. The Church is not the individuals in it. All you have are individuals and your completely theologically ignorant judgement of the all-male priesthood. Give me an example of misogyny that is part of Church Doctrine and I'll beg your pardon. Your unlearned assertions due to your failure to look in to what the Church ACTUALLY teaches concerning women and their dignity as persons is not adequate evidence for your accusations.

  7. #157
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Lent didn't exist when Jesus was feeding crowds. Though, you are right, I am no biblical scholar.
    Lent did not exist, of course. However, we take many of our current traditions from Biblical examples. As we are celebrating a sacrifice to Christ, it would make sense to make use of the diet that Jesus fed his followers as an act of obedience and sacrifice.
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  8. #158
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    It's his good news according to the people who compiled the Bible. That is what irks me a bit about the Bible: all of the gospels that were rejected were considered apocryphal and tossed out. How do we know who is telling the truth? In effect, a lot of information was censored by those who had more power and influence, allowing them to shape the Bible into whatever they deemed suitable.
    They weren't completely tossed out. Many were refered to by early Church Fathers and are not considered completely useless in a life of Faith. However, the early Fathers did not believe that they reached the level of authority that the four gospel accounts that WERE included meet. These people have a lot more knowledge of their authenticity than we have. I tend to accept their word for it more than I would yours.
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    It's commonly accepted that Pope Gregory was the first to slander Mary Magdalene's reputation. When they trace her awful and unfounded reputation back through time the first person to vilify her was in fact Pope Gregory. After him her reputation spiraled more and more out of control with no literary proof. But he was the first one to go after her, take her down, and ensure that she was not taken more seriously than a groupie following their favorite band around the country.
    Do you know what the word peccatrix means? I don't care what is commonly accepted. I care about historical fact. If it is commonly accepted to accept a slander against the pope, that says more about the slanderers and those who blindly accept it rather than look at the original meaning, intent, and text of what was said.
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    None the less, back to Pope Gregory and his mistake you're excusing him for. Aren't popes supposed to be infallible????
    Excuse him for what? For calling Mary Magdalene a sinner?

    And, as so often happens - you show a lack of basic understanding of the doctrine of infallibility.
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