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Thread: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

  1. #141
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was not issued under the extraordinary papal magisterium as an ex cathedra statement, and so is not considered infallible in itself. Its contents are, however, considered infallible under the ordinary magisterium, as this doctrine has been held consistently by the Church.
    It's infallible because the Church has always held this position?

    That's kinda weak IMO.

    A similar process can be observed in the more recent teaching regarding the doctrine that priestly ordination is reserved only to men. The Supreme Pontiff, while not wishing to proceed to a dogmatic definition, intended to reaffirm that this doctrine is to be held definitively, since, founded on the written Word of God, constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. As the prior example illustrates, this does not foreclose the possibility that, in the future, the consciousness of the Church might progress to the point where this teaching could be defined as a doctrine to be believed as divinely revealed.
    It's infallible, even though there has been no divine revelation? This sounds like "We right, and we may even get divine confirmation of that someday."
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    You obviously don't know the New TEstament very well. Then Jesus fed the crowds, what did he feed them with?
    Lent didn't exist when Jesus was feeding crowds. Though, you are right, I am no biblical scholar.
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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's infallible because the Church has always held this position?

    That's kinda weak IMO.



    It's infallible, even though there has been no divine revelation? This sounds like "We right, and we may even get divine confirmation of that someday."
    I don't care your "opinion" on the matter--the fact is that it is an infallible pronouncement. It is as it is, that's what it is saying. It is affirming that the practice is, has been, and always will be, that the priesthood is for men only due to theological underpinnings in the religion itself. The Pope didn't need to address it, because it is as it is, but he did so that the people of the Church would have no doubt or question as to the Church's view of the matter of "women priests." The Magesterium is a body of teachers. They are the ones who make the teachings of the Church clear.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I am aware of that, but it is still HIS good news. That is why the preferred names of the gospel accounts are "The Gospel ACCORDING TO Matthew", "The Gospel ACCORDING to Mark", etc.
    It's his good news according to the people who compiled the Bible. That is what irks me a bit about the Bible: all of the gospels that were rejected were considered apocryphal and tossed out. How do we know who is telling the truth? In effect, a lot of information was censored by those who had more power and influence, allowing them to shape the Bible into whatever they deemed suitable.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    It's his good news according to the people who compiled the Bible. That is what irks me a bit about the Bible: all of the gospels that were rejected were considered apocryphal and tossed out. How do we know who is telling the truth? In effect, a lot of information was censored by those who had more power and influence, allowing them to shape the Bible into whatever they deemed suitable.
    People died in defense of the truth about Jesus--including those men who determined the canon. Choosing to believe the veracity of the claims the Church makes in her preserving His Gospel is just that--your choice. That is part of being a person of faith. It is not something that is without rational weighing of the evidence for or against it being worthy of belief, but ultimately, doesn't everything come down to what makes the most sense in our minds as a result of our experiences?
    Last edited by Felicity; 03-23-09 at 02:08 PM.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    People died in defense of the truth about Jesus. Choosing to believe the veracity of the claims the Church makes in her preserving His Gospel is just that--your choice. That is part of being a person of faith. It is not something that is without rational weighing of the evidence for or against it being worthy of belief, but ultimately, doesn't everything come down to what makes the most sense in our minds as a result of our experiences?
    Absolutely. It just makes you wonder about the veracity of the nephilim in the Book of Enoch and whether or not Jesus pushed his buddy off of a roof and then resurrected him when he was a child.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    BTW, POpe Gregory did NOT refer to Mary Magdelene as a whore, he referred to her as a sinner. Look up the word "peccatrix" if you would.

    Anymore SLANDER against the Church you would like to bring up?
    It's commonly accepted that Pope Gregory was the first to slander Mary Magdalene's reputation. When they trace her awful and unfounded reputation back through time the first person to vilify her was in fact Pope Gregory. After him her reputation spiraled more and more out of control with no literary proof. But he was the first one to go after her, take her down, and ensure that she was not taken more seriously than a groupie following their favorite band around the country.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Absolutely. It just makes you wonder about the veracity of the nephilim in the Book of Enoch and whether or not Jesus pushed his buddy off of a roof and then resurrected him when he was a child.

    Doesn't sound like the Jesus I know.

    But that's the point of the Gnostics, isn't it--it's not for everyone like Christianity claims God is.

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    It's commonly accepted that Pope Gregory was the first to slander Mary Magdalene's reputation. When they trace her awful and unfounded reputation back through time the first person to vilify her was in fact Pope Gregory. After him her reputation spiraled more and more out of control with no literary proof. But he was the first one to go after her, take her down, and ensure that she was not taken more seriously than a groupie following their favorite band around the country.
    Yeah--it couldn't possibly be that he made a mistake in a sermon because the woman found in adultery is a story right next to a reference to the Magdalen and there is ambiguous pronoun references...

    No--It MUST be a mysogynistic plot to keep women in check.

    (CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!)

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    Re: Pope condemns sexual violence against women

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Yeah--it couldn't possibly be that he made a mistake in a sermon because the woman found in adultery is a story right next to a reference to the Magdalen and there is ambiguous pronoun references...

    No--It MUST be a mysogynistic plot to keep women in check.

    (CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!)
    Please. Have you read the writings from back in the day. There's no denying the church was full of misogyny.....purposeful misogyny and everyone knows it.

    It is true that in the writings of the Fathers one will find the undeniable influence of prejudices unfavourable to women, but nevertheless, it should be noted that these prejudices had hardly any influence on their pastoral activity...
    Congregation for Doctrine of Faith

    bwahahaha A direct quote from:
    INTER INSIGNIORES
    Declaration on the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood (15 October 1976)
    Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

    It's basically saying, "Yeah obviously we use to think women were crap but nevertheless this had no influence on pastoral activity!!!" As if. Like that's even possible.

    None the less, back to Pope Gregory and his mistake you're excusing him for. Aren't popes supposed to be infallible????
    Last edited by talloulou; 03-23-09 at 02:51 PM.

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