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Thread: US high school 'held cage fights'

  1. #71
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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Yes, I've been to hockey games.
    Fights keep the fans in the arena. Refs could keep the cheap shots in check. See Olympic hockey or junior hockey .[/quote]


    Nonsense. I don't know anyone who goes to any hockey games because of the fights.

    Junior hockey? really?

    YouTube - JUNIOR hockey fights

    Enjoy.



    I'm no coward. I've been in fights. It never solved anything. But I do like the saying "Run, run away, live to run another day."



    i've seen some resolve issues I have seen others not. I think your position that it never solves anything is a little emotional, not factual.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    How many of man's natural tendencies are we supposed to accommodate?
    All of them, as long as civilized order can be maintained. Channeling and controlling our natural instincts is both the source and the result of great social progress... but nothing good comes from attempting to deny them. What causes neuroses in an individual can cause far greater dysfunctions in a society.

    The best society is not the one in which the human least expresses his animal drives, but the one in which the expression of those drives promotes the most societal good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    Should we start allowing the 30 year old man to, legally, date the 17 year old? Only recently has the old-marrying-the-young become a social taboo.
    I have been arguing in the affirmative for a long time-- starting when I was closer to seventeen than I am to thirty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I am not disenfranchising your sources Korimyr, but what do you have when it comes to the most violent being the best mannered (I guess if we can conceive of a "best manner".) I'm genuinely interested.
    Don't have a specific source, but I have seen several mentions of the theory that the intricate social rituals and multilayered of Japanese society were developed as a response to the brutal internecine warfare that they experienced until well into the modern era. edit: And Jerry pointed out that similar forces were at work in shaping the social graces of the Victorian era.

    I'm not arguing that their manners are "better" than ours, but I don't think it's controversial to claim that they have a much greater care for public decorum than we do.

    As for our own history, it may be another issue of causation versus correlation, but look at the last two centuries and the progressively less exacting standards of public behavior. It seems to follow neatly the progression from the prohibition of dueling to the slow decline of the practice, into the modern era with the increasing enforcement and stricter penalties of laws against fistfighting. As a smaller and smaller portion of young men have ever experiencing being punched in the mouth, they appear to be growing mouthier and mouthier.

    And it's not just the younger generation. A woman who appeared to be in her seventies called me a "mother****er" in public a couple of months ago. Rolled down her car window and shouted it at me.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Where does "hierarchical aggression" end and bullying begin?
    When the little monkey stops fighting back. Do you really think that this new attitude towards schoolyard fights is reducing the incidence of bullying? If anything, it appears to me to be encouraging it, because the victims must add fear of punishment to their fear of whatever punishment the bully is going to inflict upon them.

    Even if you get your ass handed to you afterwards, punching a bully is a much more effective way of stopping him than telling on him. Fighting back establishes that you are not a soft target; all of the "conflict resolution" methods that they teach children in school are only effective while the adults are still watching.

    Especially considering that bullies are rarely if ever punished as a result of "conflict resolution."

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    "Safe violence" is an oxymoron. Ask Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini about it. A school is putting themselves at a liability for endorsing this as a policy of conflict resolution.
    Yes, they are, which is why this case is so shocking. But that is not evidence that it is the wrong policy, only that it is incompatible with our litigation-happy and irresponsible culture.


    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    The steroid freaks would rule society. The Wild West was hardly more civilized than society today.
    In most cases, losing a fight still hurts-- and it is the risk of defeat more than defeat itself which encourages courtesy. And while the Wild West may have been more violent-- and more disorderly-- than modern society, I would argue that it was on the whole more polite.

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    If a drunk driver hits my parked car. I am going to be mad. I could beat him up. This is no guarantee that he won't drive drunk again. It won't fix my car. It won't increase the resale value of my car when I sell it thus making me angry again.
    Neither will accepting your anger and the fact that the other man's drunkenness is out of your control. That is what the law, the small claims court, and insurance policies are for.

    On the other hand, beating him up-- or even landing a couple good shots on him-- will make you feel better, and it will leave you in a better emotional space for dealing with your anger when you see him swerving down the road again or when you get the bill from the repair shop.
    Last edited by Korimyr the Rat; 03-22-09 at 02:56 PM.

  3. #73
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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    He taught my sister how to box, so I'd say it would have been likely.

    One of our family friends is a professional female boxer.
    I am glad to see that there is logical consistency with your father. I get the underlying tone from others here that this is "boys will be boys" and wonder if they would endorse "girls will be girls".
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post


    Nonsense. I don't know anyone who goes to any hockey games because of the fights.

    Junior hockey? really?

    YouTube - JUNIOR hockey fights

    Enjoy.







    i've seen some resolve issues I have seen others not. I think your position that it never solves anything is a little emotional, not factual.
    Yeah, I guess I should have said "peewee hockey".

    Fighting solves the question of who is tougher at that moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  5. #75
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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I am glad to see that there is logical consistency with your father. I get the underlying tone from others here that this is "boys will be boys" and wonder if they would endorse "girls will be girls".
    Girls appear to be far less inclined toward physical conflict, and I don't think that's entirely a cultural phenomenon-- though the incidents that have made the news lately have given me something to think about.

    But yes, to the lesser degree that it is effective for girls and young women, I endorse. With the nasty way that girls fight, they'd probably benefit more from adult supervision than the boys would.

  6. #76
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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Yeah, I guess I should have said "peewee hockey".

    Fighting solves the question of who is tougher at that moment.



    Lol

    YouTube - Pee-Wee Hockey Fight


    i can show you all day.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #77
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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    All of them, as long as civilized order can be maintained. Channeling and controlling our natural instincts is both the source and the result of great social progress... but nothing good comes from attempting to deny them. What causes neuroses in an individual can cause far greater dysfunctions in a society.

    The best society is not the one in which the human least expresses his animal drives, but the one in which the expression of those drives promotes the most societal good.
    Controlled and focused human instinctual actions, can't agree more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Don't have a specific source, but I have seen several mentions of the theory that the intricate social rituals and multilayered of Japanese society were developed as a response to the brutal internecine warfare that they experienced until well into the modern era. edit: And Jerry pointed out that similar forces were at work in shaping the social graces of the Victorian era.

    I'm not arguing that their manners are "better" than ours, but I don't think it's controversial to claim that they have a much greater care for public decorum than we do.
    You could argue that their manners are better than our and be right.

    Most Japanese actually have manners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    As for our own history, it may be another issue of causation versus correlation, but look at the last two centuries and the progressively less exacting standards of public behavior. It seems to follow neatly the progression from the prohibition of dueling to the slow decline of the practice, into the modern era with the increasing enforcement and stricter penalties of laws against fistfighting. As a smaller and smaller portion of young men have ever experiencing being punched in the mouth, they appear to be growing mouthier and mouthier.

    And it's not just the younger generation. A woman who appeared to be in her seventies called me a "mother****er" in public a couple of months ago. Rolled down her car window and shouted it at me.
    Society is not very civil in their words anymore. I try to be a gentleman at all times and the favor is not returned very often.

    I would of told that bitch to shove it up her rear but you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    When the little monkey stops fighting back. Do you really think that this new attitude towards schoolyard fights is reducing the incidence of bullying? If anything, it appears to me to be encouraging it, because the victims must add fear of punishment to their fear of whatever punishment the bully is going to inflict upon them.
    It does encourage it because the kid being bullied respects the rules more than the bully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Even if you get your ass handed to you afterwards, punching a bully is a much more effective way of stopping him than telling on him. Fighting back establishes that you are not a soft target; all of the "conflict resolution" methods that they teach children in school are only effective while the adults are still watching.

    Especially considering that bullies are rarely if ever punished as a result of "conflict resolution."
    It teaches the bully your not just gonna take his ****.

    So next time he better mind his words otherwise he will go home at least smarting from the injuries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Yes, they are, which is why this case is so shocking. But that is not evidence that it is the wrong policy, only that it is incompatible with our litigation-happy and irresponsible culture.
    That I'm not sure how we could fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    In most cases, losing a fight still hurts-- and it is the risk of defeat more than defeat itself which encourages courtesy. And while the Wild West may have been more violent-- and more disorderly-- than modern society, I would argue that it was on the whole more polite.
    I'd say that when I fight does occur now that it is a lot more intense because since fights are not condoned and are punished, you better get some really good shots in and win otherwise you won't have a chance to make it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Neither will accepting your anger and the fact that the other man's drunkenness is out of your control. That is what the law, the small claims court, and insurance policies are for.

    On the other hand, beating him up-- or even landing a couple good shots on him-- will make you feel better, and it will leave you in a better emotional space for dealing with your anger when you see him swerving down the road again or when you get the bill from the repair shop.
    Awesome post and a lot of great points from you!
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  8. #78
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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    I see a lot of people thinking that fighting is a good thing.

    What does it solve?
    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    It relives the human instinctual tendency toward territorial and hierarchical aggression and releases the tension that builds up in multiple instances of emotional confrontations which do not lead to violence.

    Getting your teeth bloody occasionally is a tremendous aid to the practice of treating people regularly with civility and respect.
    true that, plus everybody needs a good asskicking every now and again
    i know i am long overdue for one

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    true that, plus everybody needs a good asskicking every now and again
    i know i am long overdue for one
    *SMACK*

    there feel better now?

  10. #80
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    Re: US high school 'held cage fights'

    said an ass kicking, not a bitchslap

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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