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A.I.G. executives face scorn, even at their homes

Can you tell me, in your infinite wisdom, how much an executive who manages a company of 10's of thousands of people is worth? Don't you think the board of directors would be a bit peeved if they felt the executives were being over compensated?

Clearly, the executives of many companies in financial industry were being over payed, as you would be hard pressed to justify paying someone a single dollar to bankrupt your entire industry. I am not arguing against executive pay as a whole, just executives who get paid vast amounts of money to bankrupt their company.

So you're saying that the economy crashed because of executive compensation?

No, I am saying that some stupid executives were highly responsible for crashing the economy from their short-sighted greed.

I don't think they "asked" for money. The company was contractually obliged to pay them. You don't like merit based pay? Are you of the opinion that every job, no matter how hard, should be paid the same amount?

My point is that there is no "merit" in paying someone huge amounts of money to take a company into bankruptcy. Stop the strawman attempts.

I'm afraid you inhabit a fantasy world.

Really. I'm afraid you inhabit a world without history. We are currently in a time of economic crisis after going into debt from wars abroad while a group of rich privileged members of society get death threats from members of the angry populace. Those are the conditions that historically lead to turmoil and chaos. It would be foolish to ignore them now.
 
Clearly, the executives of many companies in financial industry were being over payed, as you would be hard pressed to justify paying someone a single dollar to bankrupt your entire industry. I am not arguing against executive pay as a whole, just executives who get paid vast amounts of money to bankrupt their company.

How do you figure? People can't make good decisions about what a job is worth. That's what our experience with the Soviet Union taught us. The value of a position is best decided by the market.

No, I am saying that some stupid executives were highly responsible for crashing the economy from their short-sighted greed.

I agree that some are short-sighted. The moral hazard we're promoting here doesn't help the matter. This experience has shown us all a flaw in the financial system - their complex entanglement that doesn't allow one institution to fail gracefully. It's kinda like how a hacker finds a vulnerability in a piece of code. If it weren't for the hackers, computer software quality would not be as high. By subsidizing these failed companies, we're just covering up the flaw instead of encouraging the finance industry to fix it and prevent it in the future.

My point is that there is no "merit" in paying someone huge amounts of money to take a company into bankruptcy. Stop the strawman attempts.

I'm not attempting a straw man. "Merit pay" = performance related pay. Whether the contracts under which the executives were hired were poorly written/planned is another question.

Really. I'm afraid you inhabit a world without history. We are currently in a time of economic crisis after going into debt from wars abroad while a group of rich privileged members of society get death threats from members of the angry populace. Those are the conditions that historically lead to turmoil and chaos. It would be foolish to ignore them now.

Yes it would. Get out there and make a difference. I don't mean politically either. People need help right now. A violent revolution is in nobody's interest, certainly not the people that are whipped up in a frenzy right now.
 
You mean how you supported the bubble market in the 90s?

What are you talking about? I was still ****ting my pants in the 90's. We're talking about the value of a job, not the fluctuations of the stock market.
 
What are you talking about? I was still ****ting my pants in the 90's. We're talking about the value of a job, not the fluctuations of the stock market.

You said the market best decides the value. Well that is what the market decide, are you ok with that then?
 
You said the market best decides the value. Well that is what the market decide, are you ok with that then?

I'm more okay with that than some guy pulling a number out of his behind. The jobs market isn't subject to the fluctuations of the stock market.
 
I'm more okay with that than some guy pulling a number out of his behind. The jobs market isn't subject to the fluctuations of the stock market.

Well in the 90s the market said INVEST INVEST. So don't complain about the @#$@#$@ market.
 
Well in the 90s the market said INVEST INVEST.

That's how people read it. The stock market is used by a lot of people as a form of gambling rather than treating it like they're purchasing a business (which is what they're doing). Electronic "investing" through the internet hasn't made the situation any better.

So don't complain about the @#$@#$@ market.
:confused:
 
That's how people read it. The stock market is used by a lot of people as a form of gambling rather than treating it like they're purchasing a business (which is what they're doing). Electronic "investing" through the internet hasn't made the situation any better.
But you said the market decides, and guess what, that is what the market decided, kinda blows your defense out of the water there.
 
But you said the market decides, and guess what, that is what the market decided, kinda blows your defense out of the water there.

Not really... Tell me, without looking, how much do you think a share of Google should be worth?
 
I don't agree with the threatening of thi families one bit, but to blame it on the government is idiotic.
.

Congress specifically provided for these bonuses a couple of stimulus bills ago. Thats confirmed. NOW they turn around and toss these people under the bus in a political move to divert attention from what they did. They rant and rave decrying these people when congress in fact created this entire situation.

This is a deliberate move to monopolize the news cycle and turn eyes away from the bankers coup that just served up on a silver platter by the administration and their henchmen in congress. I will go on record saying look for rising oil prices soon and hyperinflation within the next year and a half perpetrated by congress and the administration specifically at the orders of the owners of the federal reserve. This "crisis" was engineered by the federal reserve for over a decade by the deliberate manipulation of interest rates in order to create a giant housing bubble. All aided of course by a puppet congress and a puppet president.

Throwing blame on the government would be quite accurate but throwing blame on ourselves for electing them into office would be even more accurate.
 
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Congress specifically provided for these bonuses a couple of stimulus bills ago. Thats confirmed. NOW they turn around and toss these people under the bus in a political move to divert attention from what they did. They rant and rave decrying these people when congress in fact created this entire situation.

This is a deliberate move to monopolize the news cycle and turn eyes away from the bankers coup that just served up on a silver platter by the administration and their henchmen in congress. I will go on record saying look for rising oil prices soon and hyperinflation within the next year and a half perpetrated by congress and the administration specifically at the orders of the owners of the federal reserve. This "crisis" was engineered by the federal reserve for over a decade by the deliberate manipulation of interest rates in order to create a giant housing bubble. All aided of course by a puppet congress and a puppet president.

Throwing blame on the government would be quite accurate but throwing blame on ourselves for electing them into office would be even more accurate.

Yep the government is to blame for idiots threatening the lives of AIG people.

Let's not put the blame on the idiots threatening the people's lives, but let's put it on the government instead right?

Personal Responsibility has totally escaped some conservatives thus making them hypocrites to the fullest.

Let's blame the government instead of the idiots threatening the lives of people.

I mean if during the Bush administration someone incited a riot over the Iraq war, you know where 4,000 of our people were killed, that is the fault of the people, but idiots threatening the lives of AIG people and that is the fault of the government. Yeah that sounds right :roll:
 
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Yep the government is to blame for idiots threatening the lives of AIG people.

Let's not put the blame on the idiots threatening the people's lives, but let's put it on the government instead right?

Personal Responsibility has totally escaped some conservatives thus making them hypocrites to the fullest.

Let's blame the government instead of the idiots threatening the lives of people.

I mean if during the Bush administration someone incited a riot over the Iraq war, you know where 4,000 of our people were killed, that is the fault of the people, but idiots threatening the lives of AIG people and that is the fault of the government. Yeah that sounds right :roll:



Ahh the larger picture situation is entirely the governments fault if you consider the D-CT Senator to blame for GIVING the AIG bonuses. He already accepted responsibility publicly saying the OBAMA administration had him do it.

Who wrote the AIG loophole?



These people receiving the bonuses were merely setup.

They deserve no threats or intimidation. The entirety of their bonus package collectively is less than 7% of what congress just threw out the window.

People issuing threats of any kind to these people need to be charged and tried and appropriate measures taken. They are merely staked out goats set in place to lure hungry angry mobs away from the Frankensteins in congress.
(Mad scientists might be more appropriate.)

I just think that laws should apply to the instigators of this crisis as well.
I hope I was able to straighten you out if you thought I was somehow in favor of threatening AIG people or in any way supportive of those who do.
In your last analogy you neglect many decades/centuries of foundational information however.

Pro personal responsibility in case that was not clear.
 
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Yep the government is to blame for idiots threatening the lives of AIG people.

Let's not put the blame on the idiots threatening the people's lives, but let's put it on the government instead right?

Personal Responsibility has totally escaped some conservatives thus making them hypocrites to the fullest.

Let's blame the government instead of the idiots threatening the lives of people.

I mean if during the Bush administration someone incited a riot over the Iraq war, you know where 4,000 of our people were killed, that is the fault of the people, but idiots threatening the lives of AIG people and that is the fault of the government. Yeah that sounds right :roll:

I have this weird feeling of deja vu...

But by all means, keep setting up those poorly constructed strawmen.
 
This is simply history repeating itself.
When has our government pin pointed private individuals in the manner we are experiencing now?

Anyone? An example?


For a long time we have had a group of wealthy executives who have been vastly overpaid and incompetent.
That is a decision made between their Board of Directors and Shareholders.

Executive compensation is not a government matter.
It is now because government is funding winners and losers.

If execs are overpaid, are you going to endorse going after basketball players, football players, baseball players and Hollyweird?

These people and their salaries have inflated the price of tickets of our national entertainment. It's time to start "fixing" these people up real good. Let's start with Hollyweird.

They justified their greed by claiming that they were just paid on their good performance. The shortsightedness led to to ruin and took the economy down with them.
Executive compensation didn't tank the economy.
Government intervention into the market did.

Fannie and Freddie started the ball rolling.
Government companies with no oversight.
Though the Two F's had 200 people only looking at their performance they never reported anything negative. Wonder why after the show Maxine Waters and Barney Frank put on some years ago with those warning about impending troubles.


Now, even after they clearly have shown how incompetent they are, they still ask for the same money.
Government inserted the bonuses.
Dodd specifically.

You really do eat the poop these people shovel your way.
You missed your calling.
St. Petersburg, 1917 was tailor made for you 'n yer kin.

But for you, there's still Cuba.
There's a select few that get executive compensation.

.
 
Ahh the larger picture situation is entirely the governments fault if you consider the D-CT Senator to blame for GIVING the AIG bonuses.

Again, whatever the government passes, does not mean that these idiots have the right to threaten families, nor is it the governments fault that these idiots are doing it.

If someone such as myself can refrain from making death threats to the Bush administration when they were in charge just because I was upset with their policies, so can anyone else.

Blaming the government for people making death threats, is both idiotic and childish.
 
AIG should face scorn ... but its not the employees fault.

AIG should be broken up in to smaller companies, just like ATT and standard oil was.

Nothing should be to big to fail.
 
AIG should face scorn ... but its not the employees fault.
True. They did not write the compensation law, and force to have it passed before anyone could read and debate it.

AIG should be broken up in to smaller companies, just like ATT and standard oil was.
Yep. Dissolve it. It's damaged goods now. It's got the equivalent of HIV.

Nothing should be to big to fail.
The Socialists of Amerika Party (SAPs), aka Democrats are trying to prove it.
They're trying to see if Amerika can go the same way as the USSR.
Bankrupt. Fiscally and morally.

I think we should go back and see what and when AIG was being derailed.
Was it after The Whore Monger Spitzer set out to cripple the company by politically assassinating its CEO so he could be replaced by a politically more palatable CEO?

There are indications this is the case.

Spitzer tried similar strong arm tactics with Grasso at the NYSE.

Spitzer as Victim - WSJ.com
Spared a criminal charge, Mr. Spitzer is now re-emerging to offer advice on how to reregulate Wall Street and to assert that he was right all along about everything (save the call girls). The man who forced new management on Marsh & McLennan and AIG, to the great detriment of their shareholders, now points to AIG's failure as evidence of his success. But of course no one knows what would have happened to AIG had Mr. Spitzer not forced the company's board to fire Hank Greenberg as CEO on dubious grounds; what we do know is that the managers who replaced Mr. Greenberg three years ago, to the pleasure of Mr. Spitzer, had no idea what they were doing.

Mr. Spitzer stretched the limits of such statutes as the notorious Martin Act to threaten to destroy companies and individuals that refused to settle without going to trial.

Far from being a victim, he was essentially unchecked by others in government or the media. His power made the man think he could get away with anything. It takes remarkable nerve now for Eliot Spitzer to invoke the financial meltdown as personal vindication.


Spitzer Overreaches in Case Against Grasso, Langone
New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer has made himself the darling of the media and a “hero” for the little guy through years of aggressive legal action against any corporate boogieman he could dredge up and bully into a headline-grabbing settlement. Those who haven’t bought into the Spitzer craze have complained that he has dramatically expanded government, grabbed new power for himself, and supplanted more appropriate regulatory forums all while primping for television cameras and bouncing from one soft-ball interview to another.

This information directly supports critics’ claims that Spitzer has dramatically overreached in his pursuit of Grasso and Langone. And while Spitzer certainly grabbed headlines by putting the NYSE execs in his crosshairs, it’s increasing obvious that his case is full of holes.

Taken together, this new information severely undermines Spitzer’s case and his motives for bringing it...

All of this begs the question: Why should New York taxpayers continue to foot the bill to the tune of millions of dollars for Spitzer to pursue a lame case?

Perhaps it’s because New York taxpayers don’t realize that Spitzer is funding his public relations and lawsuit binge with their money. Maybe if his many cheerleaders in the media could detach their lips from his posterior for a moment or two, New Yorkers would begin to understand who Eliot Spitzer really is and what he’s really up to.
 
I'm not alone. My grandfather had to flee Egypt after Nassr's nationalist uprising and I can't blame him for it. There's no reason to live in fear in your own country. Do you think these executives are just going to stay here and get slaughtered by a mob of ignorant people? We're getting dangerously close to the persecution against the "vampiric Jew." They're going to leave and then who's going to be left to run America's businesses? Barney Frank? Nancy Pelosi? Good luck with that.

The immigrant view.
Those who know what freedom is from losing it or almost losing it and... coming to America makes it taste all the sweeter.

I know it first hand as well.
Looking at what I was I spared,from Soviet domination is awe inspiring.
Especially when people fought and won my freedom and spared a nation.

There is nothing like America.
Witnessing this is sad.

The true face of socialism.
This only took 50-years to create.
HPIM0339.jpg

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Hey I agree with you on this ;)

They don't deserve to have their lives threatened nor their families

I agree.

They are experiencing the wrath of people who lost their jobs because of the business practices of AIG and other firms.

These people who took $1,000,000.00 in bonus money that was funded by taxpayer dollars.

It sucks to be them.

I wonder if any of them will have the class to return the money.
 
Hey I agree with you on this ;)

They don't deserve to have their lives threatened nor their families

You may be right about the death threats but what is the appropriate punishment for MONEY WHOREING..., destroying world economies? WE had some frozen bodies pulled out of tents ,here in Nashville this winter, others made it through the winter weather but still don`t have two nickles to rub togethr for warmth. These were former home owners, not savy in the ways of liveing the homeless life (cardboard boxes and tents). Millions of lives destroyed by a few MONEY WHORES. What say you...? What is an appropriate punishment for this unbelievably accepted crime of stealing from the investor, the retirement plan,the insurer,the corporate nest egg,the home buyer, etc? Express a little outrage, PLEASE ! ...P L E A SE !:confused:
 
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You may be right about the death threats but what is the appropriate punishment for MONEY WHOREING..., destroying world economies? WE had some frozen bodies pulled out of tents ,here in Nashville this winter, others made it through the winter weather but still don`t have two nickles to rub togethr for warmth. These were former home owners, not savy in the ways of liveing the homeless life (cardboard boxes and tents). Millions of lives destroyed by a few MONEY WHORES. What say you...? What is an appropriate punishment for this unbelievably accepted crime of stealing from the investor, the retirement plan,the insurer,the corporate nest egg,the home buyer, etc? Express a little outrage, PLEASE ! ...P L E A SE !:confused:

If you are pointing your gun at Congress for the situation, then fine.

If you are blaming people for acquiring individual wealth, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Government can only destroy wealth by their interventions. Screwing up the free market, and that is what they have done.

AIG bonuses don't add up to peanut shells in the Grand Scheme.

The US government has screwed the pooch by using banks as social programs. When you force banks to loan money to people to buy houses that should be renting... you've got a problem with time.

Communism took 60-years to implode... using banks as social welfare took far less to cause us grief.

And NOW YOU KNOW... every time government says they want to "Help" you... you get screwed, and in the worst case scenarios... people die because of it.

It happened in New Orleans as well.
People used to looking to government for the answer, for their Savior... died waiting for help... they were expecting from the state.

And people want government to handle their Health Care?!
:doh

.
 
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You may be right about the death threats but what is the appropriate punishment for MONEY WHOREING..., destroying world economies? WE had some frozen bodies pulled out of tents ,here in Nashville this winter, others made it through the winter weather but still don`t have two nickles to rub togethr for warmth. These were former home owners, not savy in the ways of liveing the homeless life (cardboard boxes and tents). Millions of lives destroyed by a few MONEY WHORES. What say you...? What is an appropriate punishment for this unbelievably accepted crime of stealing from the investor, the retirement plan,the insurer,the corporate nest egg,the home buyer, etc? Express a little outrage, PLEASE ! ...P L E A SE !:confused:

Alright, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone ;)
 
You may be right about the death threats but what is the appropriate punishment for MONEY WHOREING..., destroying world economies? WE had some frozen bodies pulled out of tents ,here in Nashville this winter, others made it through the winter weather but still don`t have two nickles to rub togethr for warmth. These were former home owners, not savy in the ways of liveing the homeless life (cardboard boxes and tents). Millions of lives destroyed by a few MONEY WHORES. What say you...? What is an appropriate punishment for this unbelievably accepted crime of stealing from the investor, the retirement plan,the insurer,the corporate nest egg,the home buyer, etc?

Let the businesses fail,that is the appropriate punishment for any business who makes bad decisions.Yeah people will loose their jobs,but they can find work just like everyone else who looses their job. If these businesses are "too big to fail" then they should not be allowed to exist in the first place.

Express a little outrage, PLEASE ! ...P L E A SE !:confused:

My outrage is over the fact our government has bailed these companies out instead of letting them fail and my outrage is over the fact our government gives away billions to other countries as though this money somehow grows on trees. Yeah tax payer money shouldn't be spent on bonuses,tax payer money however shouldn't be used to bail out companies.Complaining over these bonuses is like complaining that the extortionist you were forced to give a million dollars too is wasting a dollar buying a QuickTrip(popular convenient store chain) soda fountain drink. Your outrage shouldn't be over the soda fountain drink, your outrage should be directed at the people who forced you to give the extortionist a million dollars.
 
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Alright, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone ;)

No... That is not adequate... what we need is to bring to light ALL the crimes, and bring the criminals to justice.

AIG at this point is merely a DISTRACTIOn from the real theft. AIG might have been responsible for a few hundred million to a few billion dollars of these bailout scams... the total theft is more like 9.5 TRILLION that' gone unnaccounted for. If people understood that when they signed '800 billion' it was it was a limitless 800 billion.

Imaging the outrage if people understood that to date they have personnally been robbed of about 300000$ personally?? That sooner or later that's going to show up on your tax bill.

I don't want to see any type of violence, but when there is no perceived justice then you can expect the public to take justice in their own hands. Same principle as a hockey game, if a bad call is made for one team the other team will have a retribution.

If we today, were made of the same stuff of our founding fathers, we'd have pulled these guys out of their offices and strung them up in the street.
 
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