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Thread: Obama calls for new start with Iran

  1. #61
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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    More revisionist history. Carters meddling was the demise of the Shah's regime which is why we are where we are with them today.
    yeah i guess it is revisionist history if you support secret police and puppet governments.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    "Better than Saddam" is a remarkably low bar considering the lives and treasure spent on this war.
    I don't know... let's see:

    They have a Constitution.
    They have elections.
    The first democracy in the region and these folks lined up in election after election to cast their free vote... while knowing some idiot could kill them.

    Saddam isn't murdering 100 people per day.
    Throwing them off buildings.
    Electrocuting them through their genitals.
    Raping their wives and children.
    Letting his sons use the country as they liked... continuing the tradition of rape.
    Gassing Kurds.
    Making war all over the Region.
    He took a fairly modern country in the 1970's and ran it into the ground.

    Nah... no progress there.
    "Low standard."

    We heard you folks claim you had a smarter and better plan but all we heard was surrender.



    PS. Clinton let 1 million die, and Albright thought "it was worth it.
    Clinton did not free ONE person AND one million died.
    THAT... is low.


    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-23-09 at 08:31 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    They have a Constitution.
    They have elections.
    The rub is what happens when we leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Saddam isn't murdering 100 people per day.
    Throwing them off buildings.
    Electrocuting them through their genitals.
    Raping their wives and children.
    Letting his sons use the country as they liked... continuing the tradition of rape.
    Gassing Kurds.
    This all falls under the "Better than Saddam" category. You're just describing how low the bar is now.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Making war all over the Region.
    The US conservatives didn't seem to mind his war with Iran so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    He took a fairly modern country in the 1970's and ran it into the ground.
    Hmmm that's debatable. I'd say it was the US military that bombed Iraq into the stone age.
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    We heard you folks claim you had a smarter and better plan but all we heard was surrender.
    Plan for what exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    PS. Clinton let 1 million die, and Albright thought "it was worth it.
    Clinton did not free ONE person.
    The left was not happy with Clinton about this FTR. Of course I don't think his policies were that different from GH Bush on Iraq.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    The rub is what happens when we leave.
    The rub is we are not leaving.
    Obama said he would leave 50 to 60 thousand troops.

    This all falls under the "Better than Saddam" category. You're just describing how low the bar is now.
    I am describing success.
    Constitution. Free elections. Turning a former foe and hostile member into an ally.

    Brothers At War

    The US conservatives didn't seem to mind his war with Iran so much.
    Different time. The was Communist expansion all over the world.

    Hmmm that's debatable. I'd say it was the US military that bombed Iraq into the stone age.
    It's not debatable. Iraq was a modern country in the early 1970's.
    We used precision weapons... not carpet bombing.

    Plan for what exactly?
    For Iraq. It's a lot of what we heard. Bush is an idiot, he has no plan, we have one that's "Smarter and Better".
    I remember the chorus line well.

    The left was not happy with Clinton about this FTR. Of course I don't think his policies were that different from GH Bush on Iraq.
    Clinton let the UN run the show.
    He got up to 16 UN Sanctions.
    UN Inspecteurs of the Sorte were kicked out.
    Clinton did next to nothing; had Dick Morris take a poll, and then flapped his gums... that's about all.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-24-09 at 04:49 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    yeah i guess it is revisionist history if you support secret police and puppet governments.
    Suggesting that the Shah was a puppet Government is rather absurd; but I am sure you would like to share some PROOF supporting your false assertions?

    As for the secret police, what is different TODAY in Iran than when the Shah ruled other than Iranians could actually make money and come and go from Iran when they wanted to when the Shah ruled?

    Do you think they do not still have secret police and incarcerate innocents without cause at will? Do you think Iranians have MORE freedoms than they had during the Shah’s reign? Do you think it is okay for the current regime to suppress dissent with force but was wrong when the Shah did it?

    I am always fascinated when Liberals rail about the policies of Dictatorships the US supports but then are silent when they become dictatorships that hate the US. Why is that?

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    [QUOTE=zimmer;1057969825]
    The rub is we are not leaving.
    Obama said he would leave 50 to 60 thousand troops.


    I am describing success.
    Constitution. Free elections. Turning a former foe and hostile member into an ally.

    Brothers At War

    Different time. The was Communist expansion all over the world.

    It's not debatable. Iraq was a modern country in the early 1970's.
    We used precision weapons... not carpet bombing.

    For Iraq. It's a lot of what we heard. Bush is an idiot, he has no plan, we have one that's "Smarter and Better".
    I remember the chorus line well.

    Clinton let the UN run the show.
    He got up to 16 UN Sanctions.
    UN Inspecteurs of the Sorte were kicked out.
    Clinton did next to nothing; had Dick Morris take a poll, and then flapped his gums... that's about all.

    .
    Bravo Great retort.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    The President needs to change his seal so the eagle looks the other way.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The rub is we are not leaving.
    Obama said he would leave 50 to 60 thousand troops.
    Well according to the plan Obama presented and our agreement with the Iraqi government those troops will be gone by 2011 as well.

    Maybe things have changed since early March and now we've decided to violate our agreement but I haven't heard of it. My bet is that you're just hearing what you want to hear.
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I am describing success.
    ? ? The quote of yours was talking about Saddam's evils.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Constitution. Free elections. Turning a former foe and hostile member into an ally.
    I'm sure you will do nothing but look at the parts you want to see there. Apparently there is no cost too great for those things in your imagination. I can't show you a balance sheet if you won't add things up.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Different time. The was Communist expansion all over the world.
    Yes times have changed, but Iran's influence in the region is still unwanted by the US and it has increased with the weakened condition of the Iraqi state.
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    It's not debatable. Iraq was a modern country in the early 1970's.
    We used precision weapons... not carpet bombing.
    We used precision bombing to disable their infrastructure, that is: bomb them into the stone age.

    Saddam was a brutal tyrant, but he also an effective force of modernization and secularization in Iraq. That's why we backed him against Iran.
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    For Iraq. It's a lot of what we heard. Bush is an idiot, he has no plan, we have one that's "Smarter and Better".
    I remember the chorus line well.
    You're talking about what happened after dubya's started fighting again. I'm not sure why you think that's relevant to the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Clinton let the UN run the show.
    He got up to 16 UN Sanctions.
    UN Inspecteurs of the Sorte were kicked out.
    Clinton did next to nothing; had Dick Morris take a poll, and then flapped his gums... that's about all.
    Are you just venting about Clinton here? I thought we were discussing sanctions.
    Last edited by cascadian; 03-24-09 at 03:05 PM.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    yeah i guess it is revisionist history if you support secret police and puppet governments.
    Secret police and puppet governments have no bearing on you revising history.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    I'm sure you will do nothing but look at the parts you want to see there. Apparently there is no cost too great for those things in your imagination. I can't show you a balance sheet if you won't add things up.
    Cost?
    Please explain.
    On what fronts, or on all fronts?

    When there is success and you can define it... define it.
    I did.

    We have had successes. We have had setbacks which is normal in war.
    We have had Democrats and the AMMP (Democrat Propagandists) aid the enemy on a daily basis in what seemed like you folks were hoping for setbacks.



    It isn't our side that denies success and treats our troops like enemies.

    Success is the last thing the left wanted.

    In fact Senate Majority Leader Reid (S-NV), speaking for Democrats, said "The Iraq War is Lost."
    I think DJ Ali created a Nr.1 hit in the region from scratching Reid's "The Iraq War is lost" statement over and over.
    Al Jazeera and other Arab stations just about wore out the Reid clip.

    YouTube - Harry Reid: "The Iraq War is lost."
    YouTube - Harry Reid won't listen to General Petraeus
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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