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Thread: Obama calls for new start with Iran

  1. #91
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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    Well I'll admit I don't spend a lot of time reading conservative commentary, but when McCain said Obama's plan was like surrendering I don't think he was trying to appeal to the center.
    McCain and Obama have nothing to do with Iraq. Like all of the politicians their role is to either get in the way of progress or take credit for those actually doing the job. McCain was caught being foolish, parading around the "time limits are a surrender" notion, which was no longer true and Obama merely jumped on the final days of the Iraq band wagon already in progress.

    Marines were looking to stop deploying to Iraq in the front part of last summer because they largely do not have a job anymore (didn't get the media play that failure would have gotten). Iraqi troops and security forces were finaly standing up and the Al-Queda/insurgency element was crippled beyond repair. Bush had already instituted the retrograde order. And in the midst of this, the typical civilian was glued to his television listening to politicians boast about how the surge was ineffective (even though a "surge" later for Afghanistan is just the ticket) and how setting dates was like surrendering (even though the plan to begin deploying less to Iraq and more to Afghanistan with loose dates were already in the works).

    Perhaps the "center" are those without a mouthpiece in Washington and prefer to actually educate themselves to these happenings beyond the ignorant speeches and headlines. Those that decided in 2003 that everything in this war was to be "failed" or "impossible" leaving no room for reality and good news were always the thorn in the effort's side (as they "supported the troops, not the war" slogan meant to fool the dumb, unfortunate little soldiers). Perhaps those who preferred to label any temporary outburst between tribes as an "Iraqi Civil War" or that because Vermont in the desert does not exist that all is "lost" are the real stooges. Because today they barely whisper about drones over Pakistan do they? And do you think the CIA is now out of a job? Or that Obama is open and honest about his affairs and duties in this region? Even he got slapped in the face with some truth when he took office and got exposed to the events.

    Stooges come in all colors. Today, we are starting to see the other side point out every sentence structure or syllable out of Obama as the end of days or the coming of total disaster. Today, we get to see the left support what they criticized with Bush (bombings in Pakistan) and the right criticize what they used to support.

    None of you were ever in a position of wisdom. Always only in a position of ignorance and always seeking ways to encourage your protests. And despite your efforts, Iraq is being praised by even the UN and the French. Of course, with the French dropping in a consulate building in Iraq two years after they protested for the preservation of the pain in the ass, who is really surprised that they would jump on the band wagon when international business started raising eyebrows.

    And now this whole thing with Iran is taking focus too. Obama haters thinks that he is seeking a way from responsibility from this beats of a nation? Or that Bush haters have a man in office now that will snuggle up and make it all go away with a quick kiss and a handshake? Obama will give the international community and the global left what they need, which is to feel warm and cozy about kicking off in an enemy's ass, but in the end he will do exactly what Bush did without the rhetoric of "we are one." Our "friends" need this rhetoric to feel good about how they treat us and so does the left in America who gauge right and wrong according to the faces of Europeans.
    Last edited by MSgt; 03-28-09 at 02:50 PM.

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  2. #92
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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Obama calls for new start with Iran

    As the new President of the U.S. it is wise to take this kind of initiative instead of assuming that past rhetoric still stands, but I'm wondering what Obama will suggest if Iran does continue making threats.
    Folks this is exactly why you were not supposed to vote for Obama.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Folks this is exactly why you were not supposed to vote for Obama.
    Jerry to the Obama voters credit, McCain's stance on Iran was just as radical.

    YouTube - Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran

    Bombing Iran would not sway them to our favor, in fact the opposite would happen. It would push them to buy even more old soviet weaponry, even more than they are already doing.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    My sources had much more information and history. I see that you continue to prefer to wallow in willful denial rather than comprehend the whole story.

    But of course you prefer a story that puts the entire event on the American CIA because it fits with your hate America first mentality.

    Carry on.
    Yeah, YOUR sources. That's why I used the Times article, so you couldn't cry left wing media bias. So are you saying that something in that article is untrue?

    Oh and I don't have a "hate America first mentality", I have a - hate when America does stupid **** - mentality. This mentality seems to be much different than yours which seems to be - sweep the naughty stuff under the rug and pretend it never happens, salute the flag and call a democrat a marxist.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Yeah, YOUR sources. That's why I used the Times article, so you couldn't cry left wing media bias. So are you saying that something in that article is untrue?
    The New York Times is not biased? You have to be kidding me right? I provide unbiased sources and you provide an article from a News Organization that engaged in a campaign of ignorance, disinformation and character assassination against Bush thinking it is credible?

    The problem with your source is not what facts are contained in them, but the major facts deliberately left out in an effort to impugn the American Government for the actions that led to the Shah taking back political power in a country which he maintained a significant level of political power and previously held.

    It is as absurd to ignore the actions of the Communist controlled Soviet Union in the region and pretend the British were not complicit in also protecting their oil companies investments in the region.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Oh and I don't have a "hate America first mentality", I have a - hate when America does stupid **** - mentality.
    Your “America does stupid” mentality requires the willful ignorance or denial of all other nations’ stupidity.

    Once again, the reason is simple and obvious; you only like America if it is run by Socialists who want to drag this nation into the same morass as Europe currently finds itself in which fits your narrow partisan political views. It’s not the facts that matter to you, but how you can distort the facts to fit your “hate America first” mentality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    This mentality seems to be much different than yours which seems to be - sweep the naughty stuff under the rug and pretend it never happens, salute the flag and call a democrat a marxist.
    Where am I sweeping anything under the rug? You are free to prove this with facts; but again, you won’t be able to find any.

    I prefer the TRUTH and placing FACTUAL history into its proper context; something you obviously hate doing in order to promote your narrow partisan political views and “hate America first” attitudes.

    I do salute the American flag in recognizing that all of America’s “naughty stuff” aside, it has been the greatest nation in the world which promotes the idea of freedom from tyranny, being a nation of laws and human rights and dignity and the freedom of choice free markets represent to it’s citizens versus the contrary. It is the shining beacon that the worlds people have escaped to in order to share in that dream; one which their own nations would not or could not provide.

    You want to focus on America’s mistakes to promote an “anti-American” rhetoric that serves a political view that freedom of choice is bad unless it fits your narrow partisan agenda and ignores the participation and actions other nations have had in the decisions America has had to confront, engage in and compromise with.

    Yes, we have done some things that were mistaken; but the goal has always been to promote Democracy, freedom and human dignity; things that are wanting in most other nations.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Your “America does stupid” mentality requires the willful ignorance or denial of all other nations’ stupidity.
    So if the American government makes poor choices, are we in the wrong if we criticize them for it?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    So if the American government makes poor choices, are we in the wrong if we criticize them for it?
    That isn't the debate; but thank you for trolling.

    Read my comments and get back to me when you get it.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    I wander what would happen if a "tragic flaw" was found in the system which lead to a "cascading systemic failure" of their enrichment program at Natanz.

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    That isn't the debate; but thank you for trolling.

    Read my comments and get back to me when you get it.
    Your defensive response and Ad Hominems are noted. I only asked a question, which you avoided. Get back to me when you have an answer.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Obama calls for new start with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Your defensive response and Ad Hominems are noted. I only asked a question, which you avoided. Get back to me when you have an answer.
    Anybody who stands up to you and calls you on your rhetoric is guilty of ad hom?

    Get a grip man!

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