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Thread: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

  1. #21
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Wilkerson, who flew combat missions as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and left the government in January 2005, said he did not speak out while in government because some of the information was classified. He said he feels compelled to do so now because Cheney has claimed in recent press interviews that President Barack Obama is making the U.S. less safe by reversing Bush administration policies toward terror suspects, including ordering Guantanamo closed.


    Disseminating classified material after you retire is still a very serious crime. And if one does not have the integrity to honor the oath, everything else he says is suspect.



    BTW hatuey, will you be volunteering your town for them to be released into?

    And if they are "innocent" then I look foward to you attacking Obama now until they are released.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Disseminating classified material after you retire is still a very serious crime. And if one does not have the integrity to honor the oath, everything else he says is suspect.



    BTW hatuey, will you be volunteering your town for them to be released into?

    And if they are "innocent" then I look foward to you attacking Obama now until they are released.
    Yes it is extremely important to keep a persons innocence top secret

  3. #23
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    I wonder if those who seem flippant would feel the same had one of those innocent detainees were a family member.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    This guy is simply confirming what so many people already know, what has been exposed as a major problem of the Bush administration and it's policies regarding Gitmo.
    What so many people already know? What people?

    Major problem? What problem?

    What we have is the typical rhetoric from the left wing nut attack machine that has been debunked every step of the way in regard to Gitmo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I don't care how many times officials "dispute his claims" there is evidence aplenty to back up this guys story right in front of our faces.
    Of course you don't care, you've formulated a biased left wing opinion without any facts, so naturally you're going to cling to any anti Bush conspiracy theory.

    You have priors.

    You claim there's "evidence aplenty", yet provide none.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    It comes in the form of a slew of innocent men, held for years, being released without so much as a "thanks for playing."
    Nothing like being an emo kid with this POS statement.

    Let the military tribunals judge whether or not they're innocent. The tribunals are privy to the classified information to make a such decision.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

  5. #25
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Actually, not one of the articles says anything like that.
    Balderdash!

    -The first article is talking about the Uighurs
    Who were captured in 2001 and cleared four years later (meaning they were innocent all along). That's beyond reasonable. The fact that we can't send innocent men back to their nation is no reason to keep them in custody. You relocate them somewhere outside of Gitmo and work to place them somewhere they can live in poeace to make up for the fact that you took their freedom for four years.
    -The second article is referring to a guy who was released in May 2003.
    Who was captured in April of 2002, information was available within days that a mistake had been made in his capture, yet he was detained for over a year. That's beyond reasonable.
    -The people in the third article were released to be prosecuted abroad, not because the US concluded they were innocent.
    I'm sorry but you are incorrect. He was released because the British government requested his release, just like they did scores of other British nationals being held in Gitmo. The Spanish indictments were dropped. That speaks volumes about just how big of a threat these men were. The fact that they were in U.S. custody from 2002 to 2007 and they were never found to be actual enemy combatants or threats to America is appalling. Five years and no case. You're imprisoned for a half-decade on allegations that you are a terrorist/enemy combatant, then release without charges, sent home, arrested again, and then all charges are dropped. You don't have to say "they're innocent"...if they were guilty they'd still be in custody or at least have gone through and actual trial. That's beyond reasonable.
    -The guy in the fourth article was determined not to classify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was promptly sent back to Saudi Arabia.
    What is prompt about a four year imprisonment of an innocent man in Gitmo? He was captured in 2002 and cleared in 2005 (meaning he was innocent all along), released in 2006. That's beyond reasonable.
    -The guy in the fifth article was determined not to qualify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was sent back to Afghanistan within 30 days.
    Wrong again. He was an innocent man who taken into custody in 2003, was detained for three years, and then released because there was no case against him. That's beyond reasonable.
    -The guys in the sixth article were sent back to Morocco to be prosecuted in 2004, but were later acquitted on many of the charges.
    Three of those men were legitimate captures, just to be clear because I didn't clarify that, my concern is with the two who were innocent.

    In none of those situations did the government knowingly keep innocent people at Guantanamo without reason.
    There was information early on in many of these cases that the men were innocent, we just didn't move to verify it for one reason or another. Instead they languished in custody, even after cleared. Once those men were found to be non-combatants/non-terrorists we knew they were innocent and they should have been immediately released from the confinement of that camp. Even if we had to put them up in apartments on the island until we could properly relocate them.

    The fact that we had innocent men in prison for years, being interrogated, is what is so troubling here. Either we are just very poor investigators or we knew and didn't care. I don't like either indictment.

    I see merit in your assertion that our folks may not have known, but I simply do not believe we are that poor in our ability to gather evidence and make determinations in an expedient manner. We employ some damn good people in our military and intel services.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 03-20-09 at 12:16 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

  6. #26
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    They didn't have to be dislike by the neighbors it was enough that neighbors cared more about getting a big bounty reward then their neighbor. Money goes a long way ecpecially in a poor country like Afghanistan. That is why it is really sad that the USA goverment didn't do more to check out if the person arrested was a terrorist or just an easy profit for a farmer.
    If this is the way it was done there'd be slews of these people at Gitmo. Can this be proven? Has what this guy is saying been proven?

    I'm skeptical that we'd want to support these people for this many years for nothing, and if it's true why isn't Obama moving them somewhere else, he's had time. This would be fantastic news for Obama if he could prove that these guys have been illegally gathered and imprisoned, but if it's just a couple guys it may not be big enough for him to want to bother with it, either.

    I think some of them may be accessories to the fact. They could be accessories before or after the fact. They may have known of the intent for criminal activity and did nothing, or known after criminal activity had occurred and failed to report that activity. This sort of thing can be legal grounds to imprison someone.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I wonder if those who seem flippant would feel the same had one of those innocent detainees were a family member.
    Don't think anybody is being flippant, but it seems off that Obama isn't rushing in to rescue all these poor souls if it's true. He could do it, he's the Prez now.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  8. #28
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    If this is the way it was done there'd be slews of these people at Gitmo. Can this be proven? Has what this guy is saying been proven?

    I'm skeptical that we'd want to support these people for this many years for nothing, and if it's true why isn't Obama moving them somewhere else, he's had time. This would be fantastic news for Obama if he could prove that these guys have been illegally gathered and imprisoned, but if it's just a couple guys it may not be big enough for him to want to bother with it, either.

    I think some of them may be accessories to the fact. They could be accessories before or after the fact. They may have known of the intent for criminal activity and did nothing, or known after criminal activity had occurred and failed to report that activity. This sort of thing can be legal grounds to imprison someone.
    Exactly. This thread belongs in the Conspiracy Theory section.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

  9. #29
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    What so many people already know? What people?
    Don't be obtuse.

    Major problem? What problem?
    See above.

    What we have is the typical rhetoric from the left wing nut attack machine that has been debunked every step of the way in regard to Gitmo.
    That is ridiculous. In no way has it been debunked "every step of the way." What we have here is an apologist for failed strategies making broad and ambiguous statements in defense of the indefensible.

    Of course you don't care, you've formulated a biased left wing opinion without any facts, so naturally you're going to cling to any anti Bush conspiracy theory.
    Typical GottaHurt non-reality. I've provided prima facia evidence to support the case. Unless you subscribe to the notion that our military and intelligence folks are dolts who are incapable of examining evidence and coming to reasonable conclusions.
    You have priors.
    And you're full of ****.
    You claim there's "evidence aplenty", yet provide none.
    See above.

    Nothing like being an emo kid with this POS statement.
    Hey, at least the quality of your trolling is consistent with your lack of intellect.
    Let the military tribunals judge whether or not they're innocent. The tribunals are privy to the classified information to make a such decision.
    And that's being done, witness so many detainees being released having been found to be non-combatants. You really don't get it.
    *insert profound statement here*

  10. #30
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I wonder if those who seem flippant would feel the same had one of those innocent detainees were a family member.
    And I bet if your family had been killed by someone who was associated with one of these people, you'd feel quite differently.

    Personalizing these decisions is always a bad idea. Everyone would do something differently if it affected them personally, but that doesn't mean that it's a good way to evaluate decisions.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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