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Thread: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Attack the messenger right? Always a good tactic if you don't have the resources to attack the debunk the information I suppose, but still quite transparent. I think it's funny you believe him to be a boring nobody that didn't amount to much...I mean the Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State...pshhhh....that's nothing to talk about now is it?



    Seriously, you don't need to go there.
    The information should be supported by evidence before I'd bother to try to debunk it. What we have right now is the unsubstantiated claim of a guy who's spent the past 4 years ragging on the Bush Administration. I'm not ready to consider it gospel yet.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The information should be supported by evidence before I'd bother to try to debunk it. What we have right now is the unsubstantiated claim of a guy who's spent the past 4 years ragging on the Bush Administration. I'm not ready to consider it gospel yet.
    Come on RNYC...how long has this issue plagued the Bush administration? How many times have we learned of innocent individuals being detained at Gitmo? The guy had an inside view of the vipers nest and has been speaking out. But because he's been speaking out for a while and the government officials have disputed (not debunked) his claims he's not credible? Let's see how long this kind of thing has been thrown in our face.

    Exclusive: Innocent Men in Legal Limbo Still at Gitmo.
    Innocent Afghan Detainees At Gitmo?
    Guantánamo three released from custody.
    Wilting Dreams At Gitmo.
    Day 1: America's prison for terrorists often held the wrong men.
    Morocco acquits five former Guantanamo inmates.

    This guy is simply confirming what so many people already know, what has been exposed as a major problem of the Bush administration and it's policies regarding Gitmo. I don't care how many times officials "dispute his claims" there is evidence aplenty to back up this guys story right in front of our faces. It comes in the form of a slew of innocent men, held for years, being released without so much as a "thanks for playing."
    Last edited by Lerxst; 03-20-09 at 01:49 AM.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Come on RNYC...how long has this issue plagued the Bush administration? How many times have we learned of innocent individuals being detained at Gitmo? The guy had an inside view of the vipers nest and has been speaking out. But because he's been speaking out for a while and the government officials have disputed (not debunked) his claims he's not credible? Let's see how long this kind of thing has been thrown in our face.

    Exclusive: Innocent Men in Legal Limbo Still at Gitmo.
    Innocent Afghan Detainees At Gitmo?
    Guantánamo three released from custody.
    Wilting Dreams At Gitmo.
    Day 1: America's prison for terrorists often held the wrong men.
    Morocco acquits five former Guantanamo inmates.

    This guy is simply confirming what so many people already know, what has been exposed as a major problem of the Bush administration and it's policies regarding Gitmo. I don't care how many times officials "dispute his claims" there is evidence aplenty to back up this guys story right in front of our faces. It comes in the form of a slew of innocent men, held for years, being released without so much as a "thanks for playing."
    You're conflating two different things here.

    Were there people at Guantanamo who turned out to be innocent? Yes.
    Are there probably still people at Guantanamo who will turn out to be innocent (in court, at least)? Yes.

    What he is claiming is that the government knows that particular individuals are innocent and are nevertheless keeping those particular individuals at Guantanamo and have been doing so for years, for reasons that don't seem to make much sense.

    To the best of my knowledge, he's the first person to make that claim, which is why it's in the headlines. The reason why I'm not sold on that claim is that there's no evidence to support it other than his statements.

    (The Uighurs are a totally different case, as the reason they're being kept at Guantanamo is that there literally isn't anywhere to send them. They don't want to go back to China.)
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You're conflating two different things here.

    Were there people at Guantanamo who turned out to be innocent? Yes.
    Are there probably still people at Guantanamo who will turn out to be innocent (in court, at least)? Yes.

    What he is claiming is that the government knows that particular individuals are innocent and are nevertheless keeping those particular individuals at Guantanamo and have been doing so for years, for reasons that don't seem to make much sense.

    To the best of my knowledge, he's the first person to make that claim, which is why it's in the headlines. The reason why I'm not sold on that claim is that there's no evidence to support it other than his statements.

    (The Uighurs are a totally different case, as the reason they're being kept at Guantanamo is that there literally isn't anywhere to send them. They don't want to go back to China.)
    Almost all of those articles indicate that the military knew fairly quickly these men were innocent yet detained them beyond any reasonable time frame. If the military commanders at Gitmo knew, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush knew. Why should we believe anything has changed with regard to that practice?
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    US right wing = in denial... as usual.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Attack the messenger right? Always a good tactic if you don't have the resources to attack the debunk the information I suppose, but still quite transparent. I think it's funny you believe him to be a boring nobody that didn't amount to much...I mean the Chief of Staff to the Secretary of State...pshhhh....that's nothing to talk about now is it?



    Seriously, you don't need to go there.
    I'll bet dollars to donuts if I sift through your 8,500 some odd posts on this board I'll find plenty of attacks on messengers you find unappealing.


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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Almost all of those articles indicate that the military knew fairly quickly these men were innocent yet detained them beyond any reasonable time frame.
    Actually, not one of the articles says anything like that.

    -The first article is talking about the Uighurs
    -The second article is referring to a guy who was released in May 2003.
    -The people in the third article were released to be prosecuted abroad, not because the US concluded they were innocent.
    -The guy in the fourth article was determined not to classify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was promptly sent back to Saudi Arabia.
    -The guy in the fifth article was determined not to qualify as an enemy combatant in 2006 and was sent back to Afghanistan within 30 days.
    -The guys in the sixth article were sent back to Morocco to be prosecuted in 2004, but were later acquitted on many of the charges.

    In none of those situations did the government knowingly keep innocent people at Guantanamo without reason.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    US right wing = in denial... as usual.
    This really advanced the discussion, thanks.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #19
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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Some of the people who ended up as detainees were at Gitmo because a neighbor didn't like them and reported them as terrorists.
    It is what happens when you fight cowards.
    Cowards that hide in schools, hospitals, and Mosques.
    Cowards that won't wear uniforms.
    Just cowards.

    Sometimes you get the wrong people... that's life.

    Some of this is bound to happen.
    It is part of the fog in this war.
    If anything it should piss off the locals... about the Cowards, not those trying to free them of the Cowards.

    What about the 10 Pakistani civilians that Obama had vaporized?
    I bet they wish they were in Guantanamo right now.

    The Libs... they believe war is a game of perfect.

    PS.
    I'd put Bush's record concerning detainees against FDR's any day.
    Or against Clinton's wholesale neglect.

    Dereliction of Duty: Eyewitness ... - Google Book Search

    Unlimited Access: An FBI Agent ... - Google Book Search

    They're free... have a gander at the fahque up known as Bill Clinton.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-20-09 at 07:23 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Ex-Bush admin official: Many at Gitmo are innocent

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Some of the people who ended up as detainees were at Gitmo because a neighbor didn't like them and reported them as terrorists.
    They didn't have to be dislike by the neighbors it was enough that neighbors cared more about getting a big bounty reward then their neighbor. Money goes a long way ecpecially in a poor country like Afghanistan. That is why it is really sad that the USA goverment didn't do more to check out if the person arrested was a terrorist or just an easy profit for a farmer.

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