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Thread: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

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    IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive.

    The soldiers are graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory course at Oranim Academic College in Tivon. Some of their statements made on Feb. 13 will appear Thursday and Friday in Haaretz. Dozens of graduates of the course who took part in the discussion fought in the Gaza operation.

    The speakers included combat pilots and infantry soldiers. Their testimony runs counter to the Israel Defense Forces' claims that Israeli troops observed a high level of moral behavior during the operation. The session's transcript was published this week in the newsletter for the course's graduates.
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    The testimonies include a description by an infantry squad leader of an incident where an IDF sharpshooter mistakenly shot a Palestinian mother and her two children.
    According to the squad leader: "The sharpshooter saw a woman and children approaching him, closer than the lines he was told no one should pass. He shot them straight away. In any case, what happened is that in the end he killed them.
    IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement - Haaretz - Israel News

    Wow. I believed that only the Hamas killed civilians!

    Oh wait, they were Palestinians, so it doesn't matter a lot:

    "The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way,"
    Last edited by bub; 03-19-09 at 10:06 AM.

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    I see you left this part out:

    "The platoon commander let the family go and told them to go to the right. One mother and her two children didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go and it was okay, and he should hold his fire and he ... he did what he was supposed to, like he was following his orders."
    Not a surprise.

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I see you left this part out:



    Not a surprise.
    So what? That does not change anything! The sniper killed a defenseless woman and 2 kids. If you think that it is normal, then you have a big problem.

    Fortunately, it seems that the Haaretz and many Israeli, including soldiers, do not find it normal, and they are asking for an inquiry for war crimes, just like Spain tried to do one month ago.
    Last edited by bub; 03-19-09 at 11:53 AM.

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    So what? That does not change anything!
    Sure it does. The woman and child were killed because of a standing order not being countered in time, not, as you'd prefer to see it, because of some degree of moral depravity among Israeli soldiers.

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sure it does. The woman and child were killed because of a standing order not being countered in time,
    - they didn't "disobey", they didn't understand what they were asked to do/not to do
    - even if they had disobeyed...are you seriously saying that it is OK to kill children and women because they walk away

    not, as you'd prefer to see it, because of some degree of moral depravity among Israeli soldiers.
    I see it's not just among IDF soliders

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    - they didn't "disobey", they didn't understand what they were asked to do/not to do
    Odd. I dont see where I mentioned anything about disobeying orders.

    The acticle states:

    ...but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go and it was okay, and he should hold his fire and he ... he did what he was supposed to, like he was following his orders.
    There was no comfusion on the part of the sniper, and no order was disobeyed. The sniper had a standing order to not let anyone pass, and, absent a counter-order, did what he was ordered to so.

    are you seriously saying that it is OK to kill children and women because they walk away
    As I said:
    The woman and child were killed because of a standing order not being countered in time, not, as you'd prefer to see it, because of some degree of moral depravity among Israeli soldiers.

    Keep tilting at those windmills, Don.

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Israel can do no wrong to people like Goobie. Only Arabs can


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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Israel can do no wrong to people like Goobie. Only Arabs can
    Arabs can do no wrong to people like Laila and bub -- only Israelis can.

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Odd. I dont see where I mentioned anything about disobeying orders.

    The acticle states:



    There was no comfusion on the part of the sniper, and no order was disobeyed. The sniper had a standing order to not let anyone pass, and, absent a counter-order, did what he was ordered to so.


    As I said:
    The woman and child were killed because of a standing order not being countered in time, not, as you'd prefer to see it, because of some degree of moral depravity among Israeli soldiers.

    Keep tilting at those windmills, Don.
    oh forget it...it's the fault of these 2 evil kids and their jihadist-supporter mum if they were executed, we need more heroes like this brave and courageous soldier!

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    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Arabs can do no wrong to people like Laila and bub -- only Israelis can.
    I think both sides have done much wrong.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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