He followed his orders, he shot and killed a woman and two children. What we don't have is the actual wording of the actual orders given. What we do have is testimony that a sniper followed his orders and killed an unarmed woman and two children because they were in an area that they should not be in. Don't even try to justify this to me, orders or no orders. I don't believe the commander said specifically "kill women and children" but it is quite apparent the commander gave orders authorizing the killing of anyone who came into that area. This is evidenced by the fact that the soldier followed his orders and killed the woman and her children. I'll not engage in semantics on this.The testimonies include a description by an infantry squad leader of an incident where an IDF sharpshooter mistakenly shot a Palestinian mother and her two children. "There was a house with a family inside .... We put them in a room. Later we left the house and another platoon entered it, and a few days after that there was an order to release the family. They had set up positions upstairs. There was a sniper position on the roof," the soldier said.
"The platoon commander let the family go and told them to go to the right. One mother and her two children didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go and it was okay, and he should hold his fire and he ... he did what he was supposed to, like he was following his orders."
According to the squad leader: "The sharpshooter saw a woman and children approaching him, closer than the lines he was told no one should pass. He shot them straight away. In any case, what happened is that in the end he killed them.
"I don't think he felt too bad about it, because after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given. And the atmosphere in general, from what I understood from most of my men who I talked to ... I don't know how to describe it .... The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way," he said.
Are you suggesting this justifies the killings of women and children in any way?Recall for a moment that the unarmed women and children the Israelis face are someimes carrying explosives.
Rather than automatically engage and kill women and children at a distance I think I would get on the radio and say "hey, I have an unarmed woman and two children in a restricted area, should I engage?" That's what I would do. Maybe issue an order to halt. Fire a warning shot, we did this quite effectively in Iraq when there were communications issues and Iraqi's didn't seem to understand the word "halt." It was a woman and two children for crying out loud. It's not like they were running directly at him screaming "Allah!"How do you, the sniper, given an order to not let anyone pass, determine if this is the case or not?
Last edited by Lerxst; 03-19-09 at 11:09 AM.
bub wants to use this incident to illustrate the moral depravity of the Israelis, and support his ongoing claim that the Israelis deliberately target wopmen and children. This is -obviously- not the case here.
Yes, that;s right. And so, absent that, its impossible to argue that the orders he was given were flawed, illegal, immoral or depraved.He followed his orders, he shot and killed a woman and two children. What we don't have is the actual wording of the actual orders given.
See above.Don't even try to justify this to me, orders or no orders.
.I don't believe the commander said specifically "kill women and children" but it is quite apparent the commander gave orders authorizing the killing of anyone who came into that area. This is evidenced by the fact that the soldier followed his orders and killed the woman and her children. I'll not engage in semantics on this
I'm suggesting that the 'unarmed women and children' argument isnt iron-clad, given that 'unarmed women and children' often carry explosives.Are you suggesting this justifies the killings of women and children in any way?
You DO agree that woment and children carrying explosives are a legitimate target, yes?
So, I ask again -- as the sniper, how do you make that determination?