Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 52

Thread: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

  1. #21
    R.I.P. Léo
    bub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    05-17-12 @ 03:54 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,649

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Wait... you have some idea what sort of orders are 'normal'?
    How much time have you spent in combat?
    How much of that time was spent in command?
    Anyone with basic knowledges of ethic or morality can see that it is wrong to kill civilians.

  2. #22
    Sage
    Laila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Seen
    04-28-17 @ 01:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    10,095

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Palestinian lives are worth less than Israelis. I am not surprised at the reaction.

    If the thread was Israeli child killed by Palestinians, certain posters would be foaming at the mouth calling for a invasion probably


  3. #23
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Palestinian lives are worth less than Israelis. I am not surprised at the reaction.
    Context, please?

    US Marine in combat on Iwo Jima:
    "Jap lives are worth less than American lives"

    Noi difference, no surprise, no foul.

  4. #24
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Anyone with basic knowledges of ethic or morality...
    I'll take that as a 'no' to my questions.

    This means you really -dont- have any idea as to what sort or norders are 'normal' in a coimbat zone; any complaints you might then have to that effect are meaningles.


  5. #25
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Of course not to you, because it is Israel. However if the Palestinians did this you would call them murderous terrorists.
    Spoken by a man without a clue.

  6. #26
    Every day I'm hustlin'..
    Lerxst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nationwide...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,400

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    I'm very pro-Israeli. I was also a professional soldier for some time. Any standing order to shoot and kill unarmed women and children is an order that should be disobeyed without question. What this sharpshooter did was repugnant and criminal. Whether he was told to shoot them or not, he should not have done it. He did it anyway and should be prosecuted. This isn't a case of accidental civilian casualties with an artillery shell or an aerial bomb. This is a sharpshooter deliberately taking multiple shots and killing women and children.

    And yes Goobieman, there is absolutely something wrong with any order that leave so much latitude in it's interpretation that soldiers feel that they are permitted to kill unarmed women and children.

    The Israeli military is not "trained" to kill these types of people. They are very professional and efficient soldiers. This incident does not define the Israeli military. This was a tragic affair and the culprits should be dealt with. This woman and her children were not valid military targets regardless of any standing order.

    If you read the article all the way through you will clearly see this is not a case of a soldier "doing what he was trained to do." The IDF doesn't train their troops to do this. The ground commander and his order to shoot anyone that comes out of the house is a bad example of combat leadership. This soldier killed a woman and her children for leaving their house. That's it. He knew who he was engaging, there was no mistaking these people for armed combatants. They had them under observation and house arrest for several days.

    The testimonies include a description by an infantry squad leader of an incident where an IDF sharpshooter mistakenly shot a Palestinian mother and her two children. "There was a house with a family inside .... We put them in a room. Later we left the house and another platoon entered it, and a few days after that there was an order to release the family. They had set up positions upstairs. There was a sniper position on the roof," the soldier said.

    "The platoon commander let the family go and told them to go to the right. One mother and her two children didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go and it was okay, and he should hold his fire and he ... he did what he was supposed to, like he was following his orders."

    According to the squad leader: "The sharpshooter saw a woman and children approaching him, closer than the lines he was told no one should pass. He shot them straight away. In any case, what happened is that in the end he killed them.

    "I don't think he felt too bad about it, because after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given. And the atmosphere in general, from what I understood from most of my men who I talked to ... I don't know how to describe it .... The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way," he said.
    It makes me sick to my stomach, but like other examples, this is not indicative of standard IDF training or orders. This is a sorry douche bag killing women and children.
    *insert profound statement here*

  7. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Last Seen
    08-29-17 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    16,575

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Spoken by a man without a clue.
    The truth hurts eh? You would be calling the Palestinians terrorists if they had gunned down a woman and her two kids using an order like this.

  8. #28
    Every day I'm hustlin'..
    Lerxst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nationwide...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,400

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Context, please?

    US Marine in combat on Iwo Jima:
    "Jap lives are worth less than American lives"

    Noi difference, no surprise, no foul.
    Jap soldiers. Not unarmed Jap children and their mothers. And if that is what Marines thought, they were wrong.

    There is a "foul" here.
    *insert profound statement here*

  9. #29
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I'm very pro-Israeli. I was also a professional soldier for some time. Any standing order to shoot and kill unarmed women and children is an order that should be disobeyed without question.
    That wasnt the order given.
    The order was to not let anyone pass thru a given location.

    And yes Goobieman, there is absolutely something wrong with any order that leave so much latitude in it's interpretation that soldiers feel that they are permitted to kill unarmed women and children.
    Recall for a moment that the unarmed women and children the Israelis face are someimes carrying explosives.

    How do you, the sniper, given an order to not let anyone pass, determine if this is the case or not?

  10. #30
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The truth hurts eh?
    Your posts are absent truth, in the whole.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •