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Thread: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Interesting insight, but it probably doesn't pan out considering the demographic distribution of your selected group, the competetivness of the likely positions in question, and the unassailabilty of Maternity leave.

    If minority women were all going on Donald Trump's apprentice, then I could see your point, but in the average job your selected group is shooting for I don't really see much strategic loss.
    My own analysis is specifically derived from literature of the nature of Hotz et al.'s Teenage Childbearing and Its Life Cycle Consequences: Exploiting a Natural Experiment.

    Our major finding is that many of the apparent negative consequences of teenage child bearing on the subsequent socioeconomic attainment of teen mothers are much smaller than those found in studies that use alternative methodologies to identify the causal effects of teenage childbearing. We also find evidence that teenage mothers earn more in the labor market at older ages than they would have earned if they had delayed their births.
    The "economic consequences" of teenage childbearing are often grossly overestimated and mendaciously depicted, as acknowledged by researchers Geronimus and Korenman, for instance, as noted in The Socioeconomic Costs of Teen Childbearing Reconsidered.

    Teen childbearing is commonly belied to cause long-term socioeconomic disadvantages for mothers and their children. However, earlier cross-sectional studies may have inadequately accounted for marked differences in family backgrounds among women who have first births at different ages. We present new estimates that take into account unmeasured family background heterogeneity by comparing sisters who timed their first births at different ages. In two of the three data sets we examine, sister comparisons suggest that biases from family background heterogeneity are important, and, therefore, that earlier studies may have overstated the consequences of teen childbearing.
    This is certainly an area that deserves far more serious analysis and far less obnoxious misrepresentations from punditry.
    Last edited by Agnapostate; 03-19-09 at 08:34 AM.

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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    You effectively are, actually. Considering the aforementioned economically strategic nature of teenage childbearing for minority populations, condemnations of teenage childbearing and attempts to "prevent" it adversely impact the poor.
    NO. I reject the premise of your argument in its totality.
    Across the board, government should not be confiscating wealth for children these people created.

    You don't actually believe that, do you? I don't believe that the nature of far more sexually permissive Europe supports that claim.
    Believe what specifically?
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    NO. I reject the premise of your argument in its totality. Across the board, government should not be confiscating wealth for children these people created.
    How is that even a response to what I said? I said that teenage childbearing often served a valuable purpose for minority women in that it maximized their chances of success in the labor market. Hence, teenage childbearing by minority groups would actually seem to be in the interests of those who encourage "work before welfare."

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Believe what specifically?
    This tired Christian Right drivel about MTV corrupting our society with heathenism and promoting vice and whatnot.

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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    How is that even a response to what I said? I said that teenage childbearing often served a valuable purpose for minority women in that it maximized their chances of success in the labor market. Hence, teenage childbearing by minority groups would actually seem to be in the interests of those who encourage "work before welfare."
    I don't care one way or the other, so long as people understand it is their choice and their child.

    Government should not be stealing wealth, forcing people to pay for responsibilities that are not theirs and they have no means to influence.

    This tired Christian Right drivel about MTV corrupting our society with heathenism and promoting vice and whatnot.
    1. I didn't say they were "corrupting". I even said they were offering an educational service free for all.

    2. Knee jerk... You will be hard pressed to find one post from this author about Christianity. I just don't go there.

    3. As tired as you may be that Conservatives have morals, we are equally as tired of folks having government thieve the fruit of our labor to give to people that made poor choices.

    Be it AIG, GM, or some dude and dudette that had a scratch that needed fixing... and produced offspring.

    These are their choices. Not mine.
    Live with them. Or will you be bailing out my poor choices?
    If not...
    ...Deal with it. These folks made the decision themselves.

    Now...

    There is nothing wrong with asking for help, but confiscating wealth for their blunders?
    Sorry, no dice.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-19-09 at 08:59 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    More babies were born in the United States in 2007 than any other year in the nation's history and a wedding band made increasingly little difference in the matter. The 4,317,119 births, reported by federal researchers Wednesday, topped a record first set in 1957 at the height of the baby boom.
    And over here in Europe, birth rate is falling overall ... wanna give us some babies?


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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I don't care one way or the other, so long as people understand it is their choice and their child.

    Government should not be stealing wealth, forcing people to pay for responsibilities that are not theirs and they have no means to influence.
    Kimberley Christensen's commentary on the logic of the "welfare reform" of the 1990's provides a valuable insight on dispelling myths related to this topic:

    [Welfare "reform"] supporters...claimed that [Aid to Families with Dependent Children] was responsible for the growth in single motherhood, particularly teen motherhood in minority communities, in the past generation. Abolishing AFDC would supposedly reduce this phenomenon and restore the nuclear family in poor communities. Again, the facts say otherwise. The average woman on AFDC was white and had two children, the same as the average American woman not on AFDC (Abramovitz 1996). In 1996, less than 8 percent of AFDC recipients were teens, with most of those being eighteen or nineteen years of age. (Albelda and Folbre 1996). Finally, if AFDC receipt were the cause of unwed pregnancy, one would expect those states with the highest AFDC benefit levels to have more unwed births. Exactly the contrary is true; in 1996, those states with the highest benefit levels had the lowest rates of unwed birth and vice versa (Abramovitz 1996).
    (Excerpted from Empty Bellies, Empty Promises: Welfare "Reform" in the Nineties in Political Economy and Contemporary Capitalism: Radical Perspectives on Economic Theory and Policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    1. I didn't say they were "corrupting". I even said they were offering an educational service free for all.
    If you say so.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    2. Knee jerk... You will be hard pressed to find one post from this author about Christianity. I just don't go there.
    No, it's simply an accurate observation on the sympathies of most who make such claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    3. As tired as you may be that Conservatives have morals, we are equally as tired of folks having government thieve the fruit of our labor to give to people that made poor choices.
    There's little morality in capitalist economic frameworks, conservatism obviously being among them, given its advocates endorsement of free-market capitalism and neoliberal expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    These are their choices. Not mine.
    Live with them. Or will you be bailing out my poor choices?
    If not...
    ...Deal with it. These folks made the decision themselves.

    Now...

    There is nothing wrong with asking for help, but confiscating wealth for their blunders? Sorry, no dice.
    The primary "wealth confiscation" that occurs in our economic structure comes from the extraction of surplus value from the working class by the financial class, who are in turn protected by a state framework...As they say, a picture speaks a thousand words.


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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    The primary "wealth confiscation" that occurs in our economic structure comes from the extraction of surplus value from the working class by the financial class, who are in turn protected by a state framework...As they say, a picture speaks a thousand words.
    Long discredited Marxist crap.

    The "worker" is a capitalist, peddling his day's effort.

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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwar View Post
    Long discredited Marxist crap.

    The "worker" is a capitalist, peddling his day's effort.
    I am not a Marxist, nor do I subscribe to Marxist ideology relating to economic organization, or indeed, much outside of some elements of Marxist criticism of capitalism. There is more coercion involved in wage labor then is immediately apparent, but I'll not derail this thread further if not necessary. Why don't you comment on Hotz et al.?

  9. #39
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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I am not a Marxist, nor do I subscribe to Marxist ideology relating to economic organization, or indeed, much outside of some elements of Marxist criticism of capitalism. There is more coercion involved in wage labor then is immediately apparent, but I'll not derail this thread further if not necessary. Why don't you comment on Hotz et al.?
    Why do you sound like one then?

    If the shoe fits... enjoy wearing it... or change shoes.

    PS. I don't care what the result from the Psychobabbler.
    I am not the father, they are not my kids and I should not have to pay for them.
    Period.

    Unless I choose to through charity.
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-19-09 at 09:35 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: US births break record; 40 pct out-of-wedlock

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Why do you sound like one then?

    If the shoe fits... enjoy wearing it... or change shoes.
    I don't sound remotely like a Marxist, and any Marxist on here will be able to tell you that I am not one. The likely reason that I sound like a "Marxist" to you is because of a crude understanding of political philosophy and economics that prevails among capitalists. I am an anarchist.

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