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  • No - It violates the free speech rights of those who wish to have the 10 Commandments posted there.

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Thread: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

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    Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    In a legal battle that has spanned a decade, 2 counties in Kentucky have been ordered to pay the ACLU a total of $400,000.00. They won't be paying for a while because parts of the case are still being appealed.

    So is this right? On one hand, citizens should not have religion shoved down their throats by ANY government, as that represents a violation of the Separation clause. On the other hand, nobody seems to be forcing religion upon people at the courthouses in question, but are merely posting where our law comes from. In that case, why not post the writings of Hammurabi, whose "Code of Laws" is the first, and predates even the laws of Moses?

    Is posting the 10 Commandments in a courthouse an act of promoting one religion over another, or is it an act of free speech? You decide.

    My answer is that, yes, it does promote a religion, and therefore, should not be posted in any government building. However, I do not see a problem with the 10 Commandments being posted in a park or other "public" place not designated as "doing the government's business".

    Article is here.
    Last edited by danarhea; 03-18-09 at 05:56 PM.
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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    In a legal battle that has spanned a decade, 2 counties in Kentucky have been ordered to pay the ACLU a total of $400,000.00. They won't be paying for a while because parts of the case are still being appealed.

    So is this right? On one hand, citizens should not have religion shoved down their throats by ANY government, as that represents a violation of the Separation clause. On the other hand, nobody seems to be forcing religion upon people at the courthouses in question, but are merely posting where our law comes from. In that case, why not post the writings of Hammurabi, whose "Code of Laws" is the first, and predates even the laws of Moses?

    Is posting the 10 Commandments in a courthouse an act of promoting one religion over another, or is it an act of free speech? You decide.

    My answer is that, yes, it does promote a religion, and therefore, should not be posted in any government building. However, I do not see a problem with the 10 Commandments being posted in a park or other "public" place not designated as "doing the government's business".

    Article is here.
    I don't see where the ACLU should be collecting the first red cent for trying to remove part of the American tradition from public eyes.

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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't see where the ACLU should be collecting the first red cent for trying to remove part of the American tradition from public eyes.
    Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that the 10 Commandments should be allowed to stay in those courthouses?
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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Let me ask you a question. Do you believe that the 10 Commandments should be allowed to stay in those courthouses?
    Yes. If we can have pagan symbols such as the blind lady justice and the scales of balance in the courthouse, I see no issue with writings that became the foundation for Western morality in the courthouse.

    It's just a copy of a document. It's not like anyone is being forced to read it, bow down before it, or even acknowledge it with anymore attention than they do the seal that sits behind the judge. It's a symbol...and banning symbols beloved by some citizens because other citizens can't manage to not obsess over them when they see them is limiting the free expression of all citizens in the end.

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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yes. If we can have pagan symbols such as the blind lady justice and the scales of balance in the courthouse, I see no issue with writings that became the foundation for Western morality in the courthouse.

    It's just a copy of a document. It's not like anyone is being forced to read it, bow down before it, or even acknowledge it with anymore attention than they do the seal that sits behind the judge. It's a symbol...and banning symbols beloved by some citizens because other citizens can't manage to not obsess over them when they see them is limiting the free expression of all citizens in the end.
    If we can have the 10 Commandments, then why shouldn't the courts then be forced to put in other writings, such as Hammurabi's Code, Islamic Writings, or even writings from atheists?
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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    In a legal battle that has spanned a decade, 2 counties in Kentucky have been ordered to pay the ACLU a total of $400,000.00. They won't be paying for a while because parts of the case are still being appealed.

    So is this right? On one hand, citizens should not have religion shoved down their throats by ANY government, as that represents a violation of the Separation clause. On the other hand, nobody seems to be forcing religion upon people at the courthouses in question, but are merely posting where our law comes from. In that case, why not post the writings of Hammurabi, whose "Code of Laws" is the first, and predates even the laws of Moses?

    Is posting the 10 Commandments in a courthouse an act of promoting one religion over another, or is it an act of free speech? You decide.

    My answer is that, yes, it does promote a religion, and therefore, should not be posted in any government building. However, I do not see a problem with the 10 Commandments being posted in a park or other "public" place not designated as "doing the government's business".

    Article is here.
    What exactly do you mean where our laws 'come from'? The only two commandments that are even close to ours laws are not killing and not stealing. And these were laws in societies as far back as the Egyptians. LONG before Christianity or even Judaism showed up. So which of our laws come from the 10 commandments? If anything the 10 commandments stand in opposition to our constitution :

    1. I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol.

    In opposition to the 1st amendment.

    2. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

    In opposition to the 1st amendment.

    3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

    In opposition to the 1st amendment.

    4. You shall not murder*

    Law

    5. Honor your father and mother

    Ummmmm not really a law?

    6. You shall not commit adultery.

    Pretty legal.

    7. You shall not steal.

    Law.

    8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    Not a law.

    9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

    Not a law.

    10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

    Not a law.

    ------------------

    Just sayin'. Claiming that our laws come from the 10 commandments is a pretty long stretch considering 8/10 are not laws within out legal system and the very first and most important of all 10 is done away by our 1st amendment.
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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    If we can have the 10 Commandments, then why shouldn't the courts then be forced to put in other writings, such as Hammurabi's Code, Islamic Writings, or even writings from atheists?
    I see no reason why they can't or shouldn't. If they are commissioning a work or monument to go in the courthouse, everyone should be given equal access to present a nomination for it. If there is room in the courthouse and some civic or community group wants to donate a monument to go there, I see no reason why it should be limited to any one particular faith in keeping with the decor and intent of the monument.

    What I see in these cases is some fundy atheist groups getting their panties in a wad because they don't want to be faced with the reality that there are Christians in this society.

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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    I see no problem with posting the Ten Commandments anywhere, as long as all other beliefs are allowed to be displayed as well.

    As far as our legal system being based on the teachings of The Bible (not the Ten Commandments), I do not believe that. Just like all other legal systems, our system is based on common human desire. It just so happens The Bible is based on the same thing.

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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What exactly do you mean where our laws 'come from'? The only two commandments that are even close to ours laws are not killing and not stealing. And these were laws in societies as far back as the Egyptians. LONG before Christianity or even Judaism showed up. So which of our laws come from the 10 commandments? If anything the 10 commandments stand in opposition to our constitution :

    1. I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol.

    In opposition to the 1st amendment.

    2. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God

    In opposition to the 1st amendment.

    3. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

    In opposition to the 1st amendment.

    4. You shall not murder*

    Law

    5. Honor your father and mother

    Ummmmm not really a law?

    6. You shall not commit adultery.

    Pretty legal.

    7. You shall not steal.

    Law.

    8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    Not a law.

    9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife

    Not a law.

    10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

    Not a law.

    ------------------

    Just sayin'. Claiming that our laws come from the 10 commandments is a pretty long stretch considering 8/10 are not laws within out legal system and the very first and most important of all 10 is done away by our 1st amendment.
    None of that detracts from the fact that historically, the 10 Commandments has been a centerpiece of legal and moral philosophy.

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    Re: Kentucky counties fined $400,000 for posting Ten Commandments

    The ten commandments take precedence over our constitution. It is a more important document. It doesn't promote any particular religion. It is God who gave us our inalienable rights, not our constitution.

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