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Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

Wow....

Spoken like a true diehard catholic.

I'm shocked.
I'm an atheist and that makes sense to me. Why would the Pope care if you disagree? He's gonna follow the Church's teachings regardless.
 
The Pope needs to focus on what he knows best which is buying new shoes and leave the sex stuff to people who actually have sex.
The Pope is trying to save numerous lives by educating African women and empowering them. I'm sorry you are not interested in helping your fellow human beings, but do not waste your breath insulting those who are.
 
The Pope is trying to save numerous lives by educating African women and empowering them. I'm sorry you are not interested in helping your fellow human beings, but do not waste your breath insulting those who are.

The church should just stay at home and leave the empowering of women and educating to the UN. Empowering women but teaching both sex's not to use condoms just proves to me that the church is running in circles, and is as useless as ever in trying to resolve Africas HIV problem. Beliefs and scientific facts needs to be seperated, and using those scientific facts, we can help build the foundations for a healthier Africa. Instead, following beliefs and ignoring the creation of the condom (and whatever else beliefs deny) that greatly helps reduce the risk of becoming infected by HIV is pure stupidity. Abstaining from sex is out of the question, its pathetic, to expect of it from HIV infected people is foolish. Its part of our nature to have sex, no one, including the church, will change that.
The church can voice there opinions all they want, but people should be encouraged to ignore there useless opinions.
 
The Pope is trying to save numerous lives by educating African women and empowering them. I'm sorry you are not interested in helping your fellow human beings, but do not waste your breath insulting those who are.

And how many lives do you think the popes advice on not using condoms will destroy?
 
And how many lives do you think the popes advice on not using condoms will destroy?
The Pope does not destroy these people's lives with his words. They are their own entity and are free to make any choice they would like.
 
The church should just stay at home and leave the empowering of women and educating to the UN.
The U.N.? Are you kidding me? The U.N. is a joke.

Empowering women but teaching both sex's not to use condoms just proves to me that the church is running in circles, and is as useless as ever in trying to resolve Africas HIV problem. Beliefs and scientific facts needs to be seperated, and using those scientific facts, we can help build the foundations for a healthier Africa. Instead, following beliefs and ignoring the creation of the condom (and whatever else beliefs deny) that greatly helps reduce the risk of becoming infected by HIV is pure stupidity. Abstaining from sex is out of the question, its pathetic, to expect of it from HIV infected people is foolish. Its part of our nature to have sex, no one, including the church, will change that.
I highlighted irrelevant opinion in red...

The church can voice there opinions all they want, but people should be encouraged to ignore there useless opinions.
Again, no one has a gun to their head, screaming "YOU BETTER NOT USE CONDOMS OR I'LL BLOW YOUR FRIGGIN' HEAD OFF!!!" They are free to make their own decisions. The Pope prefers to educate women on empowerment and making healthy sexual decisions. He's not ignoring the creation of the condom, he's dealing with it.
 
This is why religion is seperated from state. The entire idea of the vatican needs to stop, and this sick, twisted old christian bag needs a kick up the butt. The consequences of his words will be enourmous, especially in Africa where christianity plays a big role in many societies. What do you guys think?

BBC NEWS | Europe | France chastises Pope on condoms

I would say his remark is premature. At the moment it does not look favorably for his argument, but this does not stop him from being right should a dramatic increase in contraceptive use also coincide with a rise in the condition.
 
His remark is incredibly stupid and wrong, but what's so surprising about that? He's the pope; he always says dumb ****.
 
Ask yourself a question: if I were in Africa for a year, would I abstain from high-risk sex or would I not? The answer is, yes, you would, therefore, the idea that people are incapable of controling their base inclinations is silly. They can control themselves but they choose not to; which makes the idea that they give two ****s about condoms even more preposterous.

African men treat women like semen recipticals. They are nothing more than objects to them. They know about condoms and they know where to get them and how to use them, they simply choose not to because they don't care, at all.
 
Oh, one more thing, why does anyone think African Catholics actually listen to the Pope? He tells them to save sex for marriage, instead, they have sex like crazy. What makes any of you think that the Pope is the reason they're not using condoms? What, they refuse to practice abstinence but condoms are a no-go because the Pope says so? Stupid!
 
My question is when did the pope become an expert on AIDS prevention? Also, what is his real reason for being against condom use?

The answer to the first question is he's not an expert.

The second question's answer is he's against sex basically, and of course having sex outside of marriage, which I agree with him there, but he's not being realistic since sex has been around since the beginning of time. People fool around. Catholic's have been using condoms since they became available, hence the Catholic "big families" have been decreasing since all the different methods of birth control became available. I hardly know of any Catholic's who don't practice some form of BC besides the permitted "rhythm method". He's definitely living in the dark ages, and the church needs to get a more "with it" pope if they want to keep the religion alive, cause it's dying a slow, painful death.

The Catholic Church has always been out of touch with the people, and this is why so many have, and do, fall away.

I think saying condoms will not prevent AIDS is very irresponsible on his part. He needs to shut up when he has no clue what he's talking about. If a condom prevents one person from getting AIDS it can only be a good thing. Condoms are probably the cheapest way to keep African's from getting the disease.
 
Ask yourself a question: if I were in Africa for a year, would I abstain from high-risk sex or would I not? The answer is, yes, you would, therefore, the idea that people are incapable of controling their base inclinations is silly. They can control themselves but they choose not to; which makes the idea that they give two ****s about condoms even more preposterous.

African men treat women like semen recipticals. They are nothing more than objects to them. They know about condoms and they know where to get them and how to use them, they simply choose not to because they don't care, at all.

This is probably true, but if it does scare even one person to stop having free-for-all sex it can only be a good thing.
 
The Pope does not destroy these people's lives with his words. They are their own entity and are free to make any choice they would like.

But in general African communities are strict followers of christianity and have alot of faith in that religion. So when the vatican says something, they'll jump to it and obey his orders, which is precisely why the vaitcan must choose his words carefully for many people will follow his beliefs. The popes stupid comment WILL cause problems, despite what you say egofftin, in Africa. End of.

The U.N.? Are you kidding me? The U.N. is a joke.

No more a joke than the Vatican.

I highlighted irrelevant opinion in red...

Id do the same to you but i cant be bothered to quote everything you have written so far in this thread.

Again, no one has a gun to their head, screaming "YOU BETTER NOT USE CONDOMS OR I'LL BLOW YOUR FRIGGIN' HEAD OFF!!!" They are free to make their own decisions. The Pope prefers to educate women on empowerment and making healthy sexual decisions. He's not ignoring the creation of the condom, he's dealing with it.

Ive explained that already. Anyway, nothing the UN cant do, and better.

His remark is incredibly stupid and wrong, but what's so surprising about that? He's the pope; he always says dumb ****.

And every religious leader does and will continue to do so.

Ask yourself a question: if I were in Africa for a year, would I abstain from high-risk sex or would I not? The answer is, yes, you would, therefore, the idea that people are incapable of controling their base inclinations is silly. They can control themselves but they choose not to; which makes the idea that they give two ****s about condoms even more preposterous.

Until you can honestly go to Africa and spend your entire life there abstaining from sex ill dismiss your remark as a basless opinion. Try not having sex for years as of today, see if you manage. People do and will need to have sex. Sex is unavoidable. Asking people not to have it is just pathetic. They will have it, and look; HIV continues to spread. So the next alternative is education them so they DO give 2 ****s about condoms, the way they should. Empowerment of women is important, educating both male and female alike is important, and all part of the process of stopping HIV's rapid spread, but to say condoms do not or do not have to play a role in this is out of the question because it does play an important role in protecting oneself from HIV.

To not use condoms as the vatican stated, and be affected by HIV, would mean not having sex. You may be able to do it yourself personally and live with that consequence for the rest of your life, but is that to say all of the African society will be able to do so? No. Population growth is rapid in Africa, people spurring in every direction, i doubt the entire african population with HIV would even CONSIDER abstaining from sex permanently. Its stupidity to even think so. To ask them not to use condoms would be to ask them never to have sex again. Sorry, to think thats possibly is out of the question.
 
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My question is when did the pope become an expert on AIDS prevention? Also, what is his real reason for being against condom use?

The answer to the first question is he's not an expert.
I do not recall the Pope calling himself an AIDS expert. He is an expert in Catholic theology and tradition.

The second question's answer is he's against sex basically, and of course having sex outside of marriage, which I agree with him there, but he's not being realistic since sex has been around since the beginning of time. People fool around. Catholic's have been using condoms since they became available, hence the Catholic "big families" have been decreasing since all the different methods of birth control became available. I hardly know of any Catholic's who don't practice some form of BC besides the permitted "rhythm method". He's definitely living in the dark ages, and the church needs to get a more "with it" pope if they want to keep the religion alive, cause it's dying a slow, painful death.

The Catholic Church has always been out of touch with the people, and this is why so many have, and do, fall away.
Well all of this is your opinion, so there's nothing to refute.

I think saying condoms will not prevent AIDS is very irresponsible on his part. He needs to shut up when he has no clue what he's talking about. If a condom prevents one person from getting AIDS it can only be a good thing. Condoms are probably the cheapest way to keep African's from getting the disease.
The cheapest way to save them from the disease is to not have sex with someone who is HIV positive, which is the Pope's point. :doh
 
But in general African communities are strict followers of christianity and have alot of faith in that religion. So when the vatican says something, they'll jump to it and obey his orders, which is precisely why the vaitcan must choose his words carefully for many people will follow his beliefs. The popes stupid comment WILL cause problems, despite what you say egofftin, in Africa. End of.
The people willfully made the choice to become Christians. They must deal with the consequences of those actions.

No more a joke than the Vatican.
Okay.

Id do the same to you but i cant be bothered to quote everything you have written so far in this thread.
What an ingenious insult. Bravo! :lol:

Ive explained that already. Anyway, nothing the UN cant do, and better.
The UN cannot do anything effectively. What makes you think they could solve this problem?

Until you can honestly go to Africa and spend your entire life there abstaining from sex ill dismiss your remark as a basless opinion. Try not having sex for years as of today, see if you manage. People do and will need to have sex. Sex is unavoidable. Asking people not to have it is just pathetic. They will have it, and look; HIV continues to spread.
The Pope isn't telling them to abstain from sex forever. Please, if you are going to argue with me, educate yourself on the topic at hand.

So the next alternative is education them so they DO give 2 ****s about condoms, the way they should. Empowerment of women is important, educating both male and female alike is important, and all part of the process of stopping HIV's rapid spread, but to say condoms do not or do not have to play a role in this is out of the question because it does play an important role in protecting oneself from HIV.
It's not out of the question. The Pope can say what he pleases. It's up to the Africans to make the choice to adhere or do their own thing. Stop using the Pope as a scapegoat for the mistakes of the African people.
 
I do not recall the Pope calling himself an AIDS expert. He is an expert in Catholic theology and tradition.

Then he should avoid telling Africans how to combat AIDS if he himself has no knowledge of it, but then again, sitting in his palace in Rome, how would anbody expect him to know anything of AIDS?

The cheapest way to save them from the disease is to not have sex with someone who is HIV positive, which is the Pope's point.

The cheapest yes, but possible? Nope.

The people willfully made the choice to become Christians. They must deal with the consequences of those actions.

And the consquences are spreading HIV like a bunch of rabbits because they cannot use a condom.

What an ingenious insult. Bravo!

Thankyou :D

The UN cannot do anything effectively. What makes you think they could solve this problem?

I dont. But in my mind theres two possible people who could help:

The Vatican.
The UN.

The first one i would rather the Africans stayed ignorant and spread there STD's, because all the Vatican does is chase there tails anyway by trying to solve the problem while insisting a major factor in preventing HIV (condoms) is ignored. The second choice however, has at least half the chance of combating HIV affectively. Because they use factual knowledge to combat the disease rather then made up beliefs, and they can build and provide easier health care access to Africans with trained staff so that they can actually get checked if they have HIV in the first place, which is also part of the problem.

The Pope isn't telling them to abstain from sex forever. Please, if you are going to argue with me, educate yourself on the topic at hand.

Im the one who needs educating? What, will it dissapear at some point will it? No? I didnt think so. Then if they dont abstain from sex (unless they use a condom) they will go on to spread it further.

It's not out of the question. The Pope can say what he pleases. It's up to the Africans to make the choice to adhere or do their own thing. Stop using the Pope as a scapegoat for the mistakes of the African people.

Its not impossible to tell the few millions of HIV infected Africans not to have sex? If you say so. Theres only 30 odd million carries of HIV in Africa, eleven million of them children.
 
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Then he should avoid telling Africans how to combat AIDS if he himself has no knowledge of it, but then again, sitting in his palace in Rome, how would anbody expect him to know anything of AIDS?
He knows that abstinence is a surefire way to avoid it.

The cheapest yes, but possible? Nope.
People abstain until marriage all the time. In Africa, all they have to do is abstain and marry an AIDS-free partner.

And the consquences are spreading HIV like a bunch of rabbits because they cannot use a condom.
Again, easily avoided by lessening sexual misconduct.

Im the one who needs educating? What, will it dissapear at some point will it? No? I didnt think so. Then if they dont abstain from sex (unless they use a condom) they will go on to spread it further.
Not everyone in Africa has AIDS. Those who do will die. If they die without spreading it, it will eventually go away. You still following? :lol:

Its not impossible to tell the few millions of HIV infected Africans not to have sex? If you say so.
I do. It's hard, but surely not impossible.
 
He knows that abstinence is a surefire way to avoid it.

It is, your right. But its not realistic, people will always have sex no matter what, why? Because its human nature. Which is where condoms play there part. If it was so easy for people to abstain from sex, we wouldnt even have bothered creating condoms. People will have sex no matter what we tell them.

People abstain until marriage all the time. In Africa, all they have to do is abstain and marry an AIDS-free partner.

We're talking about there entire life here. What is wrong with you? To even consider asking HIV infected people not to have sex as the underlying solution is absolutely pathetic. Its not possible, it never has worked and never will. At what point in history has there been proof of it being impossible, to tell ten of millions of people to abstain from sex permanently? Never, why? Because people wont listen. Sex is sex. The vatican isnt the first to bring up this absurd suggestion. Condoms on the other hand deliver results, and are realistic, and actually work.
 
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It is, your right. But its not realistic, people will always have sex no matter what, why? Because its human nature. Which is where condoms play there part. If it was so easy for people to abstain from sex, we wouldnt even have bothered creating condoms.
We created condom because it's not easy to make good choices. The Pope is asking the people of Africa to make good choices. Whether they choose to heed his call is up to them as individuals.

Where talking about there entire life here? What is wrong with you? To even consider asking HIV infected people not to have sex as the underlying solution is absolutely pathetic. Its not possible, it never has worked and never will. Condoms on the other hand deliver results, and are realistic.
If I had AIDS, I would not run the risk of having intercourse with someone who was AIDS free.
 
We created condom because it's not easy to make good choices. The Pope is asking the people of Africa to make good choices. Whether they choose to heed his call is up to them as individuals.

Kaya'09 said:
We're talking about there entire life here. What is wrong with you? To even consider asking HIV infected people not to have sex as the underlying solution is absolutely pathetic. Its not possible, it never has worked and never will. At what point in history has there been proof of it being impossible, to tell ten of millions of people to abstain from sex permanently? Never, why? Because people wont listen. Sex is sex. The vatican isnt the first to bring up this absurd suggestion. Condoms on the other hand deliver results, and are realistic, and actually work.

EgoffTib said:
We created condom because it's not easy to make good choices. The Pope is asking the people of Africa to make good choices. Whether they choose to heed his call is up to them as individuals.

Most people will not make the good choices, because its there instinct to have sex, there natural instincts, an irresistable urge to most. There breading like rabbits down there, you think HIV will stop them having sex? It hasnt in the past and isnt currently. Now thanks to the vatican, those who did wear condoms are going to just chuck them off now and lube up in the name of christianity. So we're going to have more Africans, and more HIV infected ones too. Until i see the 30 odd million HIV infected africans we know about so far stop having sex, and see results, im not satisfied, and neither should you, because such a thing has never happened before, and never will.
 
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Most people will not make the good choices, because its there instinct to have sex, there natural instincts, an irresistable urge to most. There breading like rabbits down there, you think HIV will stop them having sex? It hasnt in the past and isnt currently. Now thanks to the vatican, those who did wear condoms are going to just chuck them off now and lube up in the name of christianity. So we're going to have more Africans, and more HIV infected ones too. Until i see the 30 odd million HIV infected africans we know about so far stop having sex, and see results, im not satisfied, and neither should you, because such a thing has never happened before, and never will.
Well I grow tired of throwing my opinion at yours. We can agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion.
 
EgoffTib said:
Well I grow tired of throwing my opinion at yours. We can agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion.

And sorry for the insult, i get defensive sometimes :p
 
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