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Thread: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    My question is when did the pope become an expert on AIDS prevention? Also, what is his real reason for being against condom use?

    The answer to the first question is he's not an expert.
    I do not recall the Pope calling himself an AIDS expert. He is an expert in Catholic theology and tradition.

    The second question's answer is he's against sex basically, and of course having sex outside of marriage, which I agree with him there, but he's not being realistic since sex has been around since the beginning of time. People fool around. Catholic's have been using condoms since they became available, hence the Catholic "big families" have been decreasing since all the different methods of birth control became available. I hardly know of any Catholic's who don't practice some form of BC besides the permitted "rhythm method". He's definitely living in the dark ages, and the church needs to get a more "with it" pope if they want to keep the religion alive, cause it's dying a slow, painful death.

    The Catholic Church has always been out of touch with the people, and this is why so many have, and do, fall away.
    Well all of this is your opinion, so there's nothing to refute.

    I think saying condoms will not prevent AIDS is very irresponsible on his part. He needs to shut up when he has no clue what he's talking about. If a condom prevents one person from getting AIDS it can only be a good thing. Condoms are probably the cheapest way to keep African's from getting the disease.
    The cheapest way to save them from the disease is to not have sex with someone who is HIV positive, which is the Pope's point.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    But in general African communities are strict followers of christianity and have alot of faith in that religion. So when the vatican says something, they'll jump to it and obey his orders, which is precisely why the vaitcan must choose his words carefully for many people will follow his beliefs. The popes stupid comment WILL cause problems, despite what you say egofftin, in Africa. End of.
    The people willfully made the choice to become Christians. They must deal with the consequences of those actions.

    No more a joke than the Vatican.
    Okay.

    Id do the same to you but i cant be bothered to quote everything you have written so far in this thread.
    What an ingenious insult. Bravo!

    Ive explained that already. Anyway, nothing the UN cant do, and better.
    The UN cannot do anything effectively. What makes you think they could solve this problem?

    Until you can honestly go to Africa and spend your entire life there abstaining from sex ill dismiss your remark as a basless opinion. Try not having sex for years as of today, see if you manage. People do and will need to have sex. Sex is unavoidable. Asking people not to have it is just pathetic. They will have it, and look; HIV continues to spread.
    The Pope isn't telling them to abstain from sex forever. Please, if you are going to argue with me, educate yourself on the topic at hand.

    So the next alternative is education them so they DO give 2 ****s about condoms, the way they should. Empowerment of women is important, educating both male and female alike is important, and all part of the process of stopping HIV's rapid spread, but to say condoms do not or do not have to play a role in this is out of the question because it does play an important role in protecting oneself from HIV.
    It's not out of the question. The Pope can say what he pleases. It's up to the Africans to make the choice to adhere or do their own thing. Stop using the Pope as a scapegoat for the mistakes of the African people.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    I do not recall the Pope calling himself an AIDS expert. He is an expert in Catholic theology and tradition.
    Then he should avoid telling Africans how to combat AIDS if he himself has no knowledge of it, but then again, sitting in his palace in Rome, how would anbody expect him to know anything of AIDS?

    The cheapest way to save them from the disease is to not have sex with someone who is HIV positive, which is the Pope's point.
    The cheapest yes, but possible? Nope.

    The people willfully made the choice to become Christians. They must deal with the consequences of those actions.
    And the consquences are spreading HIV like a bunch of rabbits because they cannot use a condom.

    What an ingenious insult. Bravo!
    Thankyou

    The UN cannot do anything effectively. What makes you think they could solve this problem?
    I dont. But in my mind theres two possible people who could help:

    The Vatican.
    The UN.

    The first one i would rather the Africans stayed ignorant and spread there STD's, because all the Vatican does is chase there tails anyway by trying to solve the problem while insisting a major factor in preventing HIV (condoms) is ignored. The second choice however, has at least half the chance of combating HIV affectively. Because they use factual knowledge to combat the disease rather then made up beliefs, and they can build and provide easier health care access to Africans with trained staff so that they can actually get checked if they have HIV in the first place, which is also part of the problem.

    The Pope isn't telling them to abstain from sex forever. Please, if you are going to argue with me, educate yourself on the topic at hand.
    Im the one who needs educating? What, will it dissapear at some point will it? No? I didnt think so. Then if they dont abstain from sex (unless they use a condom) they will go on to spread it further.

    It's not out of the question. The Pope can say what he pleases. It's up to the Africans to make the choice to adhere or do their own thing. Stop using the Pope as a scapegoat for the mistakes of the African people.
    Its not impossible to tell the few millions of HIV infected Africans not to have sex? If you say so. Theres only 30 odd million carries of HIV in Africa, eleven million of them children.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 03-23-09 at 12:30 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Then he should avoid telling Africans how to combat AIDS if he himself has no knowledge of it, but then again, sitting in his palace in Rome, how would anbody expect him to know anything of AIDS?
    He knows that abstinence is a surefire way to avoid it.

    The cheapest yes, but possible? Nope.
    People abstain until marriage all the time. In Africa, all they have to do is abstain and marry an AIDS-free partner.

    And the consquences are spreading HIV like a bunch of rabbits because they cannot use a condom.
    Again, easily avoided by lessening sexual misconduct.

    Im the one who needs educating? What, will it dissapear at some point will it? No? I didnt think so. Then if they dont abstain from sex (unless they use a condom) they will go on to spread it further.
    Not everyone in Africa has AIDS. Those who do will die. If they die without spreading it, it will eventually go away. You still following?

    Its not impossible to tell the few millions of HIV infected Africans not to have sex? If you say so.
    I do. It's hard, but surely not impossible.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    He knows that abstinence is a surefire way to avoid it.
    It is, your right. But its not realistic, people will always have sex no matter what, why? Because its human nature. Which is where condoms play there part. If it was so easy for people to abstain from sex, we wouldnt even have bothered creating condoms. People will have sex no matter what we tell them.

    People abstain until marriage all the time. In Africa, all they have to do is abstain and marry an AIDS-free partner.
    We're talking about there entire life here. What is wrong with you? To even consider asking HIV infected people not to have sex as the underlying solution is absolutely pathetic. Its not possible, it never has worked and never will. At what point in history has there been proof of it being impossible, to tell ten of millions of people to abstain from sex permanently? Never, why? Because people wont listen. Sex is sex. The vatican isnt the first to bring up this absurd suggestion. Condoms on the other hand deliver results, and are realistic, and actually work.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 03-23-09 at 12:42 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    It is, your right. But its not realistic, people will always have sex no matter what, why? Because its human nature. Which is where condoms play there part. If it was so easy for people to abstain from sex, we wouldnt even have bothered creating condoms.
    We created condom because it's not easy to make good choices. The Pope is asking the people of Africa to make good choices. Whether they choose to heed his call is up to them as individuals.

    Where talking about there entire life here? What is wrong with you? To even consider asking HIV infected people not to have sex as the underlying solution is absolutely pathetic. Its not possible, it never has worked and never will. Condoms on the other hand deliver results, and are realistic.
    If I had AIDS, I would not run the risk of having intercourse with someone who was AIDS free.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    We created condom because it's not easy to make good choices. The Pope is asking the people of Africa to make good choices. Whether they choose to heed his call is up to them as individuals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaya'09
    We're talking about there entire life here. What is wrong with you? To even consider asking HIV infected people not to have sex as the underlying solution is absolutely pathetic. Its not possible, it never has worked and never will. At what point in history has there been proof of it being impossible, to tell ten of millions of people to abstain from sex permanently? Never, why? Because people wont listen. Sex is sex. The vatican isnt the first to bring up this absurd suggestion. Condoms on the other hand deliver results, and are realistic, and actually work.
    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib
    We created condom because it's not easy to make good choices. The Pope is asking the people of Africa to make good choices. Whether they choose to heed his call is up to them as individuals.
    Most people will not make the good choices, because its there instinct to have sex, there natural instincts, an irresistable urge to most. There breading like rabbits down there, you think HIV will stop them having sex? It hasnt in the past and isnt currently. Now thanks to the vatican, those who did wear condoms are going to just chuck them off now and lube up in the name of christianity. So we're going to have more Africans, and more HIV infected ones too. Until i see the 30 odd million HIV infected africans we know about so far stop having sex, and see results, im not satisfied, and neither should you, because such a thing has never happened before, and never will.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 03-23-09 at 12:50 PM.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Most people will not make the good choices, because its there instinct to have sex, there natural instincts, an irresistable urge to most. There breading like rabbits down there, you think HIV will stop them having sex? It hasnt in the past and isnt currently. Now thanks to the vatican, those who did wear condoms are going to just chuck them off now and lube up in the name of christianity. So we're going to have more Africans, and more HIV infected ones too. Until i see the 30 odd million HIV infected africans we know about so far stop having sex, and see results, im not satisfied, and neither should you, because such a thing has never happened before, and never will.
    Well I grow tired of throwing my opinion at yours. We can agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib
    Well I grow tired of throwing my opinion at yours. We can agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion.
    And sorry for the insult, i get defensive sometimes :P
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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    Re: Concerns Over Popes Rejection of Condoms for Combating AIDS

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    And sorry for the insult, i get defensive sometimes :P
    It happens. I learned a long time ago not to let others' words harm me.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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