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Thread: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

  1. #41
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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    The rabidity has eaten your ability to think anymore. I, nor the Church, ever made the claims you just did. You are now becoming, not only an hysterical joke, but a liar too.
    More ad homs. Tell me. Do you support the Catholic Church telling people not to use condoms?

    Sure. But it serves no point because none of that addressed anything I stated about what the Church's mission actually is. But it's fun to watch you run back and forth in a round room trying to find a corner.
    You claimed that the Catholic Church is not making the problem worse. This is proven demonstratively false by the people handling the situation from a medical perspective and not from a religious one. Do you have ANYTHING else you want to claim? Or are you going to sit here and tell me that you're now a big supporter of the Church's abstinence only position?

    Suuurvey says...

    X

    The sick are there because AIDS is a very nasty disease that sees no color or class boundary. It sees an opening in risky behavior and it strikes.
    Actually. AIDS does see class and social boundaries. AIDS is prevalent in Africa, South America and everywhere else where people live in poverty and are both highly religious and highly uneducated. North America, Europe and most modernized countries in Asia do not seem to have this problem? Why? Even the AIDS epidemic in America during the 80s does not compare to the situation in Africa. Why? Could it be because people smartened up? Started using condoms more regularly? Started educating themselves about dangerous sexual practices? I'm willing to bet a shinny dollar that it's because of that and not because they chose to engage in FAILED religious programs like those supported by the Catholic Church?

    Blaming the AIDS crisis in Africa on the Church is just childish, idiotic, and low even for you. Well, probably not for you.
    Who blamed it solely on the church? I said they were partly responsible but only because they take advantage of the highly uneducated masses. Keep trying.

    No, one long statement of the obvious when it comes to you and how you address any issue that the Church is part of. Present something worth debating and you won't be the object of ridicule, sparky.

    No, telling poor uneducated people that they shouldn't engage in sex outside of monogamy and attempting to build partnerships with their governments so that aid can be deployed faster.

    Thank for trying.
    You keep trying to bait me. Why? Is it because you can't seem to comprehend that the way that the way the CC is going about this is simply wrong and not helping anyone? Even after it's been proven so? Even after abstinence programs have been discredited for the failure that they are? Even after you YOURSELF have argued against abstinence programs? Or is it because it is the Catholic Church that you're getting all offended?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-18-09 at 06:38 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #42
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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    More ad homs. Tell me. Do you support the Catholic Church telling people not to use condoms?
    Yes, more ad homs because you are the butt of your own joke at this point.

    I support the Catholic Church providing aid and relief to Africa's poor and sick. I do not support the expectation that in order for them to do this that they must abandon their doctrine and dogma.

    You claimed that the Catholic Church is not making the problem worse. This is proven demonstratively false by the people handling the situation from a medical perspective and not from a religious one. Do you have ANYTHING else you want to claim? Or are you going to sit here and tell me that you're now a big supporter of the Church's abstinence only position?
    I never said that I was a big supporter of abstinence only. I stated that I was in support of the Church doing what the Church does in Africa and that until another force comes along that can provide that relief, all the Church bashers should be ignored as the hypocrites and hysterics that they are.

    And no, you have not demonstratively shown anything. You've caterwauled and thrown irrelevant statistics around, but you have failed to address the actual issue here. You just bitched about the Catholic Church...helping people. Again. And you will do the same tomorrow and the day after that. It's all you know how to do.

    Actually. AIDS does see class and social boundaries.
    No, it does not. AIDS sees victims in all classes and social groups. Except maybe nuns. ZOMG!!!!!! Abstinence might work after all.

    AIDS is prevalent in Africa, South America and everywhere else where people live in poverty and are both highly religious and highly uneducated.
    And in gay men who are typically more affluent and educated. It sees no difference in me or an African hut dweller when there is an opening.

    North America, Europe and most modernized countries in Asia do not seem to have this problem? Why? Even the AIDS epidemic in America during the 80s does not compare to the situation in Africa. Why? Could it be because people smartened up? Started using condoms more regularly? Started educating themselves about dangerous sexual practices? I'm willing to bet a shinny dollar that it's because of that and not because they chose to engage in FAILED religious programs like those supported by the Catholic Church?
    Once again, the Church isn't there to teach sex ed. It is there to provide relief and spiritual guidance.

    Who blamed it solely on the church? I said they were partly responsible but only because they take advantage of the highly uneducated masses. Keep trying.
    I don't need to anymore. In fact, I am afraid if I continue to demonstrate how you have failed, you just might have your head explode and I don't want your wife to have a mess to clean up.

    You keep trying to bait me. Why? Is it because you can't seem to comprehend that the way that the way the CC is going about this is simply wrong and not helping anyone? Even after it's been proven so? Even after abstinence programs have been discredited for the failure that they are?
    No, it is because you keep trying to apply a standard to the Catholic Church that does not fit. What you fail to understand is that the Catholic Church isn't there to pass out condoms so criticizing them for not doing so is, at best, a fools errand. No one is saying that abstinence programs aren't a failure. What is being said is that the Church isn't stopping anyone from passing out condoms but the Church also isn't going to move away from its core belief that abstinence is moral and good. That is not enough to condemn the church's efforts in all other arenas.

    Even after you YOURSELF have argued against abstinence programs?
    I still do.

    Or is it because it is the Catholic Church that you're getting all offended?
    No, I am getting all offended because I find lies and distortions being peddled under the guys of "THINK OF THE AAAAAAFRICAAAANS!!!!" to be offensive on all fronts.

  3. #43
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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Yeah--he could lead them in prayer--...keep having sex outside of the bond of marriage and pray that the little latex prophylactic baking in the African sun holds up. Great plan.
    Oh please, responsible use of condoms is needed and the Pope is guilty in using his influence due to the fact many Africans are religious and uneducated.
    Last edited by Laila; 03-19-09 at 03:05 AM.


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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    I don't think this issue is so black and white. The Church does help the poor world wide, even though its views on sexual education and prevention are primitive. When I was a volunteer in Southern Brazil, my (non-religious) group worked alongside the local Catholic Churches to provide nourishment and activities for the local families. In the developed world we have the luxury of relying on government institutions to provide us with secular information and handouts, but in developing nations the governments are either corrupt or don't have the resources to provide. The Church and other NGOs often meet this gap in needs.

    I don't agree with the Catholic Church's view on condom use whatsoever. I think it is a dangerous, antiquated policy predicated on the belief that it obstructs reproduction; meanwhile, millions of babies worldwide are born with AIDS every year because their infected parents engaged in unprotected sex.

    Simply advocating marriage is insufficient. Marriage doesn't protect people from HIV. In South Africa, one in three people has HIV... that is 30% of the population. There needs to be a radical shift in education towards safe sexual practices, medical facilities that offer rapid testing so that people can know their status, and support for infected people on healthier living and prevention of spread of the disease.

    Africa needs all the help it can get and the Church has a place in that (in terms of food, shelter, helping people to go to school, community projects, etc.), but when it becomes to sexual education, it should be left to the non-religious NGOs. Islam and Catholicism are both guilty of perpetuating sexual ignorance in Africa and they are conflating the HIV epidemic big time.

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I think it is a dangerous, antiquated policy predicated on the belief that it obstructs reproduction; ....
    It is much more than that. Much much more than that--and that is why I got after dclxvinoise about the "Every Sperm is Sacred" reference. The Church's view of life and sex and it's purpose as it relates to God is very deeply rooted in her theology concerning mankind's relationship to God and what "love" really is. It's less about procreation than it is about honesty and truth and trust and self donation.

    See John Paul II's Theology of the Body

  6. #46
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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    You know on a continent that thinks that having unprotected sex with a virgin cures aids, perhaps abstinence teaching is not such a bad idea.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then they shouldn't be surprised when their ineffectiveness of their actions is criticized. The Catholic Church spending 'vast amount of resources' while at the same time telling people to engage in behavior that poses a great risk(like for example : not using condoms) to their health is a ridiculous contradiction.

    The Samaritan work of the CC is akin to the nurse in Misery. Help but continue to make the problem worse by not properly educating people.



    So the church is telling these people to have unprotected sex?



    Your bigotry blinds you, it is a sad state you live in.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  8. #48
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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You know on a continent that thinks that having unprotected sex with a virgin cures aids, perhaps abstinence teaching is not such a bad idea.
    Not a bad idea? How about we give them a crater full of condoms and tell them that prevents catching aids? You know ... the truth :/
    Last edited by Laila; 03-19-09 at 09:07 AM.


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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Not a bad idea? How about we give them crater full of condoms and tell them that prevents catching aids? You know ... the truth :/



    Are you suggesting the Catholics are preventing condoms from being used? any evidence?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #50
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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Are you suggesting the Catholics are preventing condoms from being used? any evidence?
    I said that?
    Tho the Pope has some responsibility, spreading his religious BS to a continent which is being crippled with Aids.

    I suggested why we do not give them condoms for free, along with food and other medicine. How about a 'Hey, here is some protection - USE IT'
    Last edited by Laila; 03-19-09 at 09:08 AM.


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