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Thread: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    It's not the Catholic Church's mission to teach sex education outside of their doctrine. If other groups want to teach sex education that includes birth control and condoms, that's fine. I don't see the Catholic Church holding a gun to anyone's head and banning them from doing so.

    What the Church does do in Africa is it spends vast amounts of resources caring for people who are in a bad way while maintaining its own principles. Anyone who has a problem with them doing good work in any way they can is just being a retarded idealogue who cares more about bashing the good samaritan than he or she does about the people in need.
    So then they shouldn't be surprised when their ineffectiveness of their actions is criticized. The Catholic Church spending 'vast amount of resources' while at the same time telling people to engage in behavior that poses a great risk(like for example : not using condoms) to their health is a ridiculous contradiction.

    The Samaritan work of the CC is akin to the nurse in Misery. Help but continue to make the problem worse by not properly educating people.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes. I'm pretty sure this would be obvious to anybody who studies the subject. Africa as a continent showed itself to be incapable of controlling it's sexual behavior even with the help of religion in the last 20 years.
    Incapable? Really?

    Rather racist of you.

    That you're defending this is no surprise.
    I don't get what about "helping people" requires a defense.


    Meaning what exactly? That money isn't being used by the Catholic Church to teach sexual education. It's not being used to provide uneducated masses with condoms. So then what good is it for? Paying for the Pope's palace and telling people not to have sex?
    See? That's that "flailing at the straw man" I described.

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Incapable? Really?

    Rather racist of you.
    How so? Am I saying that they are incapable because of race? Because Africa is mostly black? No. Africa has proven itself incapable because it is populated by largely uneducated religious masses. Just like South America. The other Catholic Haven that just happens to have ridiculously high rates of AIDS. Your appeal to emotion has been denied.

    I don't get what about "helping people" requires a defense.
    I asked several questions. Like for example what kind of help is the Catholic Church supposed to offer while posing for photo-ops with the very dictators that contribute to the problem.

    See? That's that "flailing at the straw man" I described.
    You're silly. Now go back to the abortion threads where you can argue about a bunch of cells being a human being.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So then they shouldn't be surprised when their ineffectiveness of their actions is criticized. The Catholic Church spending 'vast amount of resources' while at the same time telling people to engage in behavior that poses a great risk(like for example : not using condoms) to their health is a ridiculous contradiction.

    The Samaritan work of the CC is akin to the nurse in Misery. Help but continue to make the problem worse by not properly educating people.
    well I see you went from semi mindless bashing straight to full on absurdity in no time flat.

    I would type really slowly but I doubt that's going to help your comprehension any better. But I will offer you a compromise...

    When Hatuey manages to amass a veritable army of volunteers dedicated to the cause along with providing sustainable and enduring charitable contributions to put medicines, food, building supplies, fresh water, orphan care services, education, and counseling in the hands of those volunteers....and when Hatuey gathers the resources to deploy those volunteers and resources to Africa and begins bringing much needed relief to Africa on the scale that the Catholic Church does, then and only then might I be inclined to criticize the Church for doing what it can within boundaries that it has maintained since long before you started your sniveling bitching about how it operates in Africa.

    I'm going to repeat one more time: the Church does not have a mission of teaching sex education. It has a mission of alleviating human suffering and giving doctrinal instruction as it relates to the Church.
    Last edited by jallman; 03-18-09 at 06:01 PM.

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    well I see you went straight from semi mindless bashing straight to full on absurdity in no time flat.
    I see you engaged in ad homs like you usually do when you can't come up with any coherent arguments.

    I would type really slowly but I doubt that's going to help your comprehension any better. But I will offer you a compromise...

    When Hatuey manages to amass a veritable army of volunteers dedicated to the cause along with providing sustainable and enduring charitable contributions to put medicines, food, building supplies, fresh water, orphan care services, education, and counseling in the hands of those volunteers....and when Hatuey gathers the resources to deploy those volunteers and resources to Africa and begins bringing much needed relief to Africa on the scale that the Catholic Church does, then and only then might I be inclined to criticize the Church for doing what it can within boundaries that it has maintained since long before you started your sniveling bitching about how it operates in Africa.
    AIDS & HIV in Africa questions and answers

    In the West there is a temptation for people to focus on the “exotic” aspects of HIV in Africa and to forget that the major problems of HIV prevention are much the same as those in Europe, the USA or anywhere else. The vast majority of HIV transmissions in Africa occur during unprotected heterosexual sex. HIV prevention efforts should aim to make behaviour and practices safer while respecting local cultures. In many cases this may be achieved through relatively small changes in cultural practices, such as sterilising blades or switching to alternative rituals that are culturally acceptable but carry a lower risk of HIV transmission.14
    Do you want me to explain in any more of a clear term why the Catholic Church is actually making things worse in Africa regardless of how much money they throw at the already sick people?

    I'm going to repeat one more time: the Church does not have a mission of teaching sex education. It has a mission of alleviating human suffering and giving doctrinal instruction as it relates to the Church.
    I'm going to throw this at you for the first time : Hatuey does not have an obligation to believe that what the Catholic Church is doing is actually helping when their mission is helping to make the problem worse.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I see you engaged in ad homs like you usually do when you can't come up with any coherent arguments.
    I see you refuse to acknowledge that there is a world beyond the end of your mindless Church bashing nose like you usually do when you can't address the arguments presented to you.

    AIDS & HIV in Africa questions and answers



    Do you want me to explain in any more of a clear term why the Catholic Church is actually making things worse in Africa regardless of how much money they throw at the already sick people?
    They aren't making a problem worse. They are addressing the needs of the sick. If you want to go pass out condoms and educate people in Africa in ways that the Church can't, you and any other organization are more than welcome to do so. Until you get off your ass and do something about the issue yourself as opposed to banging your keyboard and gnashing your teeth over the internetz about how the Church won't fit into your skewed and, quite frankly, worthless perception of what is and isn't help, I don't really see where you have much more claim to any "point" save that you are a consummate hypocrite.


    I'm going to throw this at you for the first time : Hatuey does not have an obligation to believe that what the Catholic Church is doing is actually helping when their mission is helping to make the problem worse.
    No, hatuey has never really been one to give proper respect to reality when he sees an opportunity to rail against those who are actually doing good in the world.

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    IC Publications


    There you go. That's what should happen.

    If only they didn't need the pope to anger them into doing it.

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I see you refuse to acknowledge that there is a world beyond the end of your mindless Church bashing nose like you usually do when you can't address the arguments presented to you.
    uh what? Yeah a world full of mystery...where telling people to not use condoms is good if you help them die peacefully. Ummm alright there?

    They aren't making a problem worse.
    False :

    Brazil Blasts Church for AIDS, Condoms Stance

    Brazil's government has criticized the local Roman Catholic church for not supporting condom use to help prevent HIV infection. The Health Ministry noted that while the church recommends abstinence and fidelity, the church should not ignore science and serious public health matters that must be addressed. The National Bishops' Association restated last week the church's opposition to Catholics using condoms, although some clergymen who work with AIDS patients reportedly disagreed with the ruling. A 1999 study estimated there were at least 540,000 HIV-infected individuals in Brazil, out of an overall population of 160 million.
    000619
    Catholic Church's Opposition to Condom Use Contributes to Spread of HIV in Latin America, UNAIDS Official Says - The Body

    The Roman Catholic Church's opposition to condom use is contributing to the spread of HIV in Latin America, Alberto Stella -- UNAIDS coordinator for Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica -- said on Monday, Reuters reports.

    "In Latin America, the use of condoms has been demonized, but if they were used in every relation, I guarantee the epidemic would be resolved in the region," Stella said. He added that youth "start to be sexually active between 15 and 19 without sex education" -- a factor that contributes to the spread of HIV. In addition, evidence indicates that promoting abstinence is "not working," according to Stella.
    Do you want to try this again? Seriously. I can do this all day.

    They are addressing the needs of the sick.
    Which as I stated. Very honorable. Until one realizes that the sick are there in part because of the Catholic Church's work.

    If you want to go pass out condoms and educate people in Africa in ways that the Church can't, you and any other organization are more than welcome to do so. Until you get off your ass and do something about the issue yourself as opposed to banging your keyboard and gnashing your teeth over the internetz about how the Church won't fit into your skewed and, quite frankly, worthless perception of what is and isn't help, I don't really see where you have much more claim to any "point" save that you are a consummate hypocrite.
    One long ad hom. Thanks for trying?

    No, hatuey has never really been one to give proper respect to reality when he sees an opportunity to rail against those who are actually doing good in the world.
    Doing good by telling poor uneducated people to not use condoms and posing with the dictators that keep them down. Well...uh sure.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-18-09 at 06:05 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    IC Publications


    There you go. That's what should happen.

    If only they didn't need the pope to anger them into doing it.
    You're right. Instead of trying to do this as a statement against the Pope today, they should have done this as a statement for the people of Africa yesterday.

    Of course the Pope makes these statements. But what authority does the Pope really carry when it comes to world health crises? That's right...none. Zero, nada.

    So let the Church do what the Church does which is alleviate human suffering and let the WHO and other organizations do what they do which is address the health issue.

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    Re: Pope in Africa says church must help the poor

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    uh what? Yeah a world full of mystery...where telling people to not use condoms is good if you help them die peacefully. Ummm alright there?
    The rabidity has eaten your ability to think anymore. I, nor the Church, ever made the claims you just did. You are now becoming, not only an hysterical joke, but a liar too.

    Sure. But it serves no point because none of that addressed anything I stated about what the Church's mission actually is. But it's fun to watch you run back and forth in a round room trying to find a corner.

    Which as I stated. Very honorable. Until one realizes that the sick are there in part because of the Catholic Church's work.
    Suuurvey says...

    X

    The sick are there because AIDS is a very nasty disease that sees no color or class boundary. It sees an opening in risky behavior and it strikes. Blaming the AIDS crisis in Africa on the Church is just childish, idiotic, and low even for you. Well, probably not for you.


    One long ad hom. Thanks for trying?
    No, one long statement of the obvious when it comes to you and how you address any issue that the Church is part of. Present something worth debating and you won't be the object of ridicule, sparky.

    Doing good by telling poor uneducated people to not use condoms and posing with the dictators that keep them down. Well...uh sure.
    No, telling poor uneducated people that they shouldn't engage in sex outside of monogamy and attempting to build partnerships with their governments so that aid can be deployed faster.

    Thank for trying.

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