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Thread: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

  1. #21
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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Have these idiots not heard of the Bill of Attainder clause in the US Constitution. I guess no one should be surprised. They are playing to a really stupid electorate. They will posture for a few more days until it dies down then go on to the next big controversy.
    They're not idiots but of course they think we are. The dems are now asking AIG to GIVE the bonuses back. Oh really? Other Republicans said Democratic leaders last month killed a plan that would have forced financial institutions to compensate taxpayers if they paid their executives large bonuses after receiving federal bailout money.

    Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, a co-sponsor of the amendment to Obama's stimulus bill, said striking it "left open an escape hatch of golden parachutes for top executives on Wall Street."

    Why are we just hearing about this now?!

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    Have these idiots not heard of the Bill of Attainder clause in the US Constitution. I guess no one should be surprised. They are playing to a really stupid electorate.
    This timing aspect of this bill is not abnormal whether you like it or not.

    Here's a source you'll probably trust
    Retroactive Tax Increases and The Constitution

    Congress has been adopting retroactive tax increases for a very long time, essentially since the 1930s. The 1913 Revenue Act was the first one with an effective date before the date of the actual enactment. Generally, the increased tax rate is applied retroactively to the year in which it is enacted.
    bolding mine.

    as for the Bill of Attainder

    The Bill of Attainder Clauses, which also constrain state and federal governments, provide only limited protection against retroactive civil legislation. Although the Supreme Court has construed these clauses as protecting rights, the clauses bar only those laws that legislatively determine guilt and inflict punishment on identifiable individuals without the protections of a judicial trial. The Supreme Court has not struck down a law as an unconstitutional bill of attainder since the mid-1960s.

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    This timing aspect of this bill is not abnormal whether you like it or not.

    Here's a source you'll probably trust
    Retroactive Tax Increases and The Constitution

    bolding mine.

    as for the Bill of Attainder
    My understanding it that its not about enacting a retroactive tax. It's about applying it only to certain individuals. They can enact a 100% tax on everyone in a particular tax bracket but not just on those that displease them.

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    They could get sued by those employees for breach of contract if the bonuses didn't get paid, so yes, they did have alot more to lose. However I will agree with you that incompetence led to the initial mess with A.I.G.
    Which is why companies should be nationalized and then sold off once the market recovers rather than handed hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars.

    Companies should be scared to death of being nationalized if they are in this position. That creates an incentive against this kind of incompetence. As it is, we have only created a huge moral hazard for these derivatives traders.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    My understanding it that its not about enacting a retroactive tax. It's about applying it only to certain individuals. They can enact a 100% tax on everyone in a particular tax bracket but not just on those that displease them.
    By my reading of that article, taxation by its nature doesn't appear to be covered by the bill of attainder clauses because it is considered "civil".

    Basically the idea of that law was to prevent Congress from taking over the judicial role and legislating someone's punishment without giving them a trial. Raising your taxes doesn't seem to meet that qualification in the interpretation of the courts.

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Obama Administration: We Didn't Find Out About AIG Bonuses Until This Month
    Link to this story
    Political Punch: Obama Administration: We Didn't Find Out About AIG Bonuses Until This Month

    Quote from article
    (Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner was alerted last Tuesday, March 10; he phoned AIG CEO Edward Liddy on Wednesday evening, March 11, to protest the bonuses, sources told ABC News.

    On Thursday, March 12, Secretary Geithner informed a senior White House official about the controversy, aides passed the information on to President Obama later in the day.)

    OK I can accept the above.

    Quote from article
    (How the Obama administration was caught flat-footed by this controversy dates back to last Fall, when the New York Federal Reserve Bank -- then run by Geithner -- stepped in to give AIG a high-interest loan for $85 billion to help prevent the company from going under -- which Lehman Brothers was doing at the time. As part of the deal, AIG CEO Robert Willumstad was replaced by the new CEO, Liddy.)


    Are they talking about the same Geithner or is this an entirely different person?

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    By my reading of that article, taxation by its nature doesn't appear to be covered by the bill of attainder clauses because it is considered "civil".

    Basically the idea of that law was to prevent Congress from taking over the judicial role and legislating someone's punishment without giving them a trial. Raising your taxes doesn't seem to meet that qualification in the interpretation of the courts.
    Believe whatever you like. I don't believe that source is the final arbiter on this subject.

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    The whole theory of "nationalize it till you can auction it off" wouldn't be AS distasteful as it is if there was any OUNCE of belief in me that the democrat controlled congress and presidency would actually auction it off instead of just seeing another way to expand government

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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    This "talent" did such a wonderful job at AIG that the company has thus far needed over 170 BILLION DOLLARS to stay afloat.

    This talent that received these bonuses were derivatives traders, the very greedy douche bags whose actions resulted in AIG needing over 170 billion dollars to stay afloat and advert worldwide financial collapse.

    Do you honestly think that anyone else wants that "talent" right now? If you ****ed your company like that, would you deserve a bonus?

    I picked the wrong profession. In IT, if I **** up and cost my employer a lot of money, they would just can me. However, if I just would have went into derivatives trading, I could get millions in bonuses after my **** ups cost my employer over 60 billion in just the last quarter, then get some rabid right wingers defending my bonuses.
    These are the same people that created the problems at AIG? I'm not sure that you or anyone else here knows that.

    They might be doing a great job cleaning out the garbage that was left for them and simply need more time.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: US Sen. Schumer threatens huge tax on AIG bonuses

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Obama Administration: We Didn't Find Out About AIG Bonuses Until This Month
    Link to this story
    Political Punch: Obama Administration: We Didn't Find Out About AIG Bonuses Until This Month

    Quote from article
    (Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner was alerted last Tuesday, March 10; he phoned AIG CEO Edward Liddy on Wednesday evening, March 11, to protest the bonuses, sources told ABC News.

    On Thursday, March 12, Secretary Geithner informed a senior White House official about the controversy, aides passed the information on to President Obama later in the day.)

    OK I can accept the above.

    Quote from article
    (How the Obama administration was caught flat-footed by this controversy dates back to last Fall, when the New York Federal Reserve Bank -- then run by Geithner -- stepped in to give AIG a high-interest loan for $85 billion to help prevent the company from going under -- which Lehman Brothers was doing at the time. As part of the deal, AIG CEO Robert Willumstad was replaced by the new CEO, Liddy.)


    Are they talking about the same Geithner or is this an entirely different person?
    Yep. Unfortunately, it's the same wonder boy that has been up to his eyeballs in this mess from the beginning. But... no one else in the country could fix this mess except for Geithner.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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