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Selling sex legally in New Zealand

talloulou said:
Morality will always have a basis in law. This doesn't mean you've suddenly opened yourself up to some crack pot religious take over.

Why can't a 34 year old man have sex with a 15 year old girl? Because she's a minor? So? What's wrong with screwing a minor?????
Morality.

Why can you give your kidney away but you can't sell it? Why aren't you allowed to sell or trade your organs????

Morality.

Why can't you have sex with dead people?

Morality.

Why can't you have sex with animals in most cities?

Morality.

I'm perfectly comfortable acknowledging that removal of the legal barrier between sex & retail fuels a demand that often leads to sex slaves and human trafficking thus it should be illegal. It's often associated with criminal activity thus it should be illegal. The women are often desperate when they get into the business and their health is measured often by their ability to get out of it thus it should be illegal.
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All of the things you listed are not illegal because of morality, they have an objective element in that they involve consent.
 
Jerry said:
They're the same thing.
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Interesting. So voluntary employment is the same as involuntary enslavement in Jerryland. Your world is just curiouser and curiouser. ;)

Does black mean white too? Up is down?
 
talloulou said:
You would think legalization would eliminate human trafficking. But around the world it's been just the opposite. So that ought to lead to a pause...
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I did not claim that legalization in and of itself would eliminate human trafficking, in fact, I readily admit that nothing can fully eliminate the practice. I said that proper regulation will make human trafficking more difficult and less profitable. Human trafficking has a large demand on the black market, legalized and well-regulated prostitution will virtually eliminate this black market. Conversely, criminalized prostitution sustains this black market and fuels demand for human trafficking.
 
Ethereal said:
The only way to ensure human trafficking occurs with regularity and virtual impunity is to create demand for it on the black market. Legalization and proper regulation will help eliminate this demand.
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I disagree.

The Netherlands is a primary country of destination for victims of human trafficking.

Prostitution in the Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cigarettes are legal, it doesn't cut down on the black market sales.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/nyregion/02smoke.html
 
StandUpChuck said:
I don't know you from adam, so I have no idea. People can say whatever they want on the net and without tax records to back it up ...
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Indeed. And I sure as **** didn't claim the income.

I am feeling really badly for bringing up rape and assault not having known you've been through that. I feel like I sucker punched you when I really didn't mean to. It's really nothing women should throw out there at other women, so I'm sorry I went there.
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It wasn't a sucker punch, so don't beat yourself up about it. Seriously, that part of your post didn't bother me in the slightest. I only responded to that part of it to make the point that rapes can and do happen most often outside of any prostitution activity. If it had bothered me in the way you seem to think it could have, I wouldn't have responded to that statement at all. Or I would have blown a gasket or something and cussed you up and down. One or the other... kinda depends on my mood. ;)
 
Psychoclown said:
So again, you're ok with Taliban like morality laws as long as they are voted in?

And then why are you bashing New Zealand. They're democraticly elected government voted to legalize prostitution. That should be ok with you if voting is all that matters.
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Show me where I bashed New Zealand.

Show me where I said prostitution shouldn't be legal.

Show me where I said voting is all that matters.

Maybe if you weren't busy stacking your pennies for your next pay to play tryst, you'd be able to pay attention to who is saying what.
 
Alex said:
That is a separate issue from prostitution. There is no evidence that any of the Nevada brothels engage in human trafficking.
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A study this month alleges an alarming amount of human trafficking and physical and mental abuse associated with Nevada’s brothels.
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Nevada's brothels get tough look<br> $50 million industry draws new,unflatteringattention - Chicago Tribune

The US federal government believes Las Vegas is a top destination for "human trafficking" victims - from indentured servants to massage parlor workers and prostitutes held captive and forced to commit sex acts.
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HumanTrafficking.org | News & Updates: US Justice Department Names Las Vegas Among 17 Most Likely Destinations

Vegas tops sex trafficking list.. Results from a two-year investigation by the U.S. State Department show Las Vegas as the epicenter of North American prostitution and human trafficking.
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Vegas Tops Sex Trafficking List - Las Vegas News Story - KVVU Las Vegas

Dr. Melissa Farley says Las Vegas is the epicenter of North American prostitution and human trafficking. Farley spent two years researching and writing her new book: Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connections.
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Vegas the epicenter of North American prostitution?

In almost every country that has legalized prostitution incidences of human trafficking have skyrocketed; including children.
 
talloulou said:
Morality will always have a basis in law. This doesn't mean you've suddenly opened yourself up to some crack pot religious take over.
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So you're comfortable with morality by law only if its your morality?

Why can't a 34 year old man have sex with a 15 year old girl? Because she's a minor? So? What's wrong with screwing a minor?????
Morality.
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Because we recognize that child abuse has a damaging affect on children. I've always considered the laws that make a 19 year old a rapist for screwing around with his 16 year old girlfriend ridiculous and archaic. A good example of why laws shouldn't be based on morality.

Why can you give your kidney away but you can't sell it? Why aren't you allowed to sell or trade your organs????

Morality.
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No, the potential for abuse is so overwhelming, we do it to protect sick, poor, or dying people from being pressued into selling their organs at the hands of an unscrupulous doctor. Morality doesn't enter into it.

Why can't you have sex with dead people?

Morality.
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Probably morality based, but how often are there necrophelia cases in our courts? Its not like the corpse is going to press charges. And it could be argued that those laws are in place to protect the surviving loved ones from the trauma of knowing their loved ones' remains were violated by some weirdo.

Why can't you have sex with animals in most cities?

Morality.
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This could fall under animal cruelty laws. I suppose some could argue animal cruelty laws are morality laws. Again though, how many casing of animal ****ing are in our courts today? Its a law that affects virtually no one in our society.

Laws regarding prositutions affect hundreds of thousands if not millions of people directly and all tax payers indirectly due to funding of vice squads and clogging of our courts with "crimes" were no party was injured.

I'm perfectly comfortable acknowledging that removal of the legal barrier between sex & retail fuels a demand that often leads to sex slaves and human trafficking thus it should be illegal.
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And landscaping and other such fields fuel a demand for cheap labor that often leads to hiring illegal immigrants.

It's often associated with criminal activity thus it should be illegal.
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Its associated with criminal activity because its illegal, not because of some inherent criminal element in prostitution. During prohibition, alcohol was associated with crimianl activity? What was the reason for this alcohol or prohibition? I think we all know the answer.

The women are often desperate when they get into the business and their health is measured often by their ability to get out of it thus it should be illegal.
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Most people take their job because they need to. You think janitors want to be janitors? No, they took it because its the best job they could get. Same is true for many prostitutes.

As to them desiring to get out of the field, many people take jobs without planning on staying their forever. We'd consider a 40 year old who still flips burgers and wears a paper hat to be a loser. So people often measure their success by their ability to get out of minimum wage entry level jobs. That's no reason to ban them.
 
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rivrrat said:
Indeed. And I sure as **** didn't claim the income.


It wasn't a sucker punch, so don't beat yourself up about it. Seriously, that part of your post didn't bother me in the slightest. I only responded to that part of it to make the point that rapes can and do happen most often outside of any prostitution activity. If it had bothered me in the way you seem to think it could have, I wouldn't have responded to that statement at all. Or I would have blown a gasket or something and cussed you up and down. One or the other... kinda depends on my mood. ;)
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Glad you're OK. If you'd have cussed me up and down, I'd have been able to handle it. ;)

So will you be getting a tax refund/credit on the income you didn't claim?
 
talloulou said:
Nevada's brothels get tough look<br> $50 million industry draws new,unflatteringattention - Chicago Tribune



HumanTrafficking.org | News & Updates: US Justice Department Names Las Vegas Among 17 Most Likely Destinations


Vegas Tops Sex Trafficking List - Las Vegas News Story - KVVU Las Vegas



Vegas the epicenter of North American prostitution?

In almost every country that has legalized prostitution incidences of human trafficking have skyrocketed; including children.
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Talloulou... prostitution isn't legal in Vegas. It's only legal in one county in Nevada (if I'm not mistaken). Clark County isn't the one.
 
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Ethereal said:
I did not claim that legalization in and of itself would eliminate human trafficking, in fact, I readily admit that nothing can fully eliminate the practice. I said that proper regulation will make human trafficking more difficult and less profitable. Human trafficking has a large demand on the black market, legalized and well-regulated prostitution will virtually eliminate this black market. Conversely, criminalized prostitution sustains this black market and fuels demand for human trafficking.
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Human trafficking has been proven to rise when prostitution is made legal. It goes up. Gets bigger. Involves children. Grows.

Prostitution aggravates the issue of human trafficking.

In places where sex is promoted as a commodity, where sex is a tourist attraction, the demand for whores spirals out of control. Human trafficking then comes in as a major player. This is happening all over the world today.

And yes, even in the brothels in Vegas.
 
StandUpChuck said:
Show me where I bashed New Zealand.

Show me where I said prostitution shouldn't be legal.

Show me where I said voting is all that matters.

Maybe if you weren't busy stacking your pennies for your next pay to play tryst, you'd be able to pay attention to who is saying what.
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Show me where I said I use the services of a prostitute.

Maybe if you weren't too busy being a troll you would be able to pay attention to who said what.
 
rivrrat said:
Talloulou... prostitution isn't legal in Vegas. It's only legal in one county in Nevada (if I'm not mistaken). Clark County isn't the one.
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What's your point? Are you aiming to argue that Nevada is a major destination for human trafficking coincidentally?:roll: Gimme a break.
 
StandUpChuck said:
Glad you're OK. If you'd have cussed me up and down, I'd have been able to handle it. ;)

So will you be getting a tax refund/credit on the income you didn't claim?
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I know so little about tax crap that I can't tell if that is a serious question or a sarcastic/humorous one. :shock: All I can say is.... umm... it was a number of years ago and the filing for that year has long since passed. And, that thinking about taxes pisses me off right now since Cali seems to think an IOU is as good as my damn refund. Those bastards.
 
 
talloulou said:
What's your point? Are you aiming to argue that Nevada is a major destination for human trafficking coincidentally?:roll: Gimme a break.
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LMFAO Yeah, coincidentally, the sex slaves are going to a HUGE ****ING CITY with a massive ADULT ENTERTAINMENT MARKET where prostitution is NOT LEGAL. It's no big surprise.
 
talloulou said:
I am absolutely superior to women who do this and will be for as long as they continue to do so.
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How so? It's their own choice. Your choices don't somehow make you superior just because you see them as better.
 
Psychoclown said:
Because we recognize that child abuse has a damaging affect on children. I've always considered the laws that make a 19 year old a rapist for screwing around with his 16 year old girlfriend ridiculous and archaic. A good example of why laws shouldn't be based on morality.
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So it damages children. Why can't we damage children? Because they're people with rights? Why do we have to give them rights?

ALL MORALS.

No, the potential for abuse is so overwhelming, we do it to protect sick, poor, or dying people from being pressued into selling their organs at the hands of an unscrupulous doctor. Morality doesn't enter into it.
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Why do we care if there is abuse? Why do we care to protect the poor and dying?

MORALS.

This could fall under animal cruelty laws. I suppose some could argue animal cruelty laws are morality laws. Again though, how many casing of animal ****ing are in our courts today? Its a law that affects virtually no one in our society.
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Treating animals humanely is absolutely about morals.

It's hard to find laws that have zero moral basis. Most laws have a moral starting point.
 
talloulou said:
Yes. It is about the money. When you turn the human body into a commodity you cheapen it and invite exploitation. There's a difference between being a man who lucks upon a woman who is happy to have sex with him within 10 minutes of their meeting vs the men who fuel a prostitute economy with a high demand that leads to human trafficking and the men don't even seem to know or care if the women they are paying for sex around the world are voluntary whores or sex slaves.
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Again, your opinion. Personally I place blame on the person paying for it and not the person selling it. At least the person selling it has some business sense. The person paying for it is desperate for sex. A prostitute would have no business if they didn't have willing customers. Why no blame towards them?
 
Grateful Heart said:
This is probably the best post yet...

For all of those supporting legalization, I'd like to see a show of hands. Would you rather see your daughter earn minimum wage at McDonald's or make $20 for a BJ?

Honest answers only!

:rofl
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Well, I personally would rather see my daughter happy, and if that makes them happy so be it. It's none of my business. If they are an adult then I see no reason why they can't do what they choose. Then again, I don't have the same stigma that many people here seem to have against prostitution.
 
dclxvinoise said:
Again, your opinion. Personally I place blame on the person paying for it and not the person selling it. At least the person selling it has some business sense. The person paying for it is desperate for sex. A prostitute would have no business if they didn't have willing customers. Why no blame towards them?
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I put lots of blame on the customer. I've said that already. They are the ones who drive the demand up to levels that encourage human trafficking.
 
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