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Selling sex legally in New Zealand

Yes, you are purchasing her time and sex with her. You aren't purchasing her as a human being to do with whatever you want. Your argument remains emotional opinion. And it isn't as if she is being forced into that profession. Obviously she has a choice. Hell, prostitutes are nearly legal in the US as it is and they are called escorts. They pick and choose their clientele and I imagine that it would be no different if it were made legal. I just don't understand why you assume all of these horrible things would happen if it were suddenly made legal.

Human trafficking for sex work occurs throughout the US. Nevada is the most common destination but not the only one.

The truth is, as a man with money and an allotted time of 30 minutes give or take, and little interest or obligation to do anything besides use her flesh- you have no idea exactly how voluntary or involuntary her sex work is.
 
So I am noticing that three of the four sources here claim human trafficking has increased in Las Vegas, where prostitution is illegal. Seems like there is a spurious relationship between human trafficking and legal prostitution.

How do you then come to the conclusion that legalizing prostitution is the cause of increased human trafficking?

Men go where they think they can buy sex. Vegas is sin city and prostitution is legal in places in Nevada. This creates a larger market in "vegas" than in other cities. You have more men in Vegas wanting to pay for sex then you might find in Dublin, Ohio. It's cause and demand relationship. Same with Amsterdam. Same with Australia. Same with anywhere men can go with an expectation that they will be able to buy sex. Eventually you have more men with money than women and you need to start importing, exploiting, and do whatever you can to keep business booming. You may not like that this relationship exists but it does.
 
When there are men with money who want to buy whores there will be other men who want money who will do whatever it takes to bring in more whores.

Quoted For Truth
 
I never said human trafficking does not happen in countries where prostitution is illegal.

However there is an intrinsic relationship between legalizing prostitution and human trafficking. This has been shown in Australia, Germany, Israel, & Nevada.

China is at the top of the list for human sex trafficking where prostitution is illegal. In Las Vegas your earlier example prostitution is illegal. In Veitnam there is a prostitution problem:

Prostitution in Vietnam is a major social issue that particularly affects women and children. Child prostitution is a problem.[1] Sex education has been limited because of Vietnam’s traditional bias against the public mention of anything sexual.[2] Vietnam is not a popular destination for sex tourism for Westerners, compared to Thailand and the Philipines, since prostitution is illegal in Vietnam. In Thailand, it is a legal industry.

Prostitution in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW Prostitution is illegal in the Philippines:

Prostitution in the Philippines is illegal. It is a serious crime with penalties ranging up to life imprisonment for those involved in trafficking.[1] It is covered by the Anti-Trafficking in Persons Act.[2] Prostitution is sometimes illegaly available through brothels (also known as casa), bars, karaoke bars (also known as KTVs), Massage Parlors, street walkers and escort service.

The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women - Asia Pacific (CATW-AP) [1], quoting from Kyodo News, estimated that in 1998 there were 400,000 prostituted women in the Philippines.[3][4] The International Labor Organization estimated that in 1993/94 there were nearly half a million prostitutes in the country.[5]

Prostitution in the Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you can prove causative results about legality please do so
 
I have to ask if this is your primary concern, why did you not bring it up earlier. If I recall, you brought this issue up after several posts on the morality, lack of dignity, and stigma of prostitution. If this was your primary objection to legalized prostitution, I would've thought you would've brought it up first and not wasted our time with "would you want your daughter doing this?" and other such platitudes.

Moving on to human trafficing and prostitution, the two may be linked. I haven't read your links or checked out their authenticity, but I'll take your word for it, but they are not the same thing. Why can't we legalize prostitution and increase our enforcement efforts (with the now freed up manpower and funds from the former vice squads) to enforce laws on human trafficing? I don't see why they are mutually exclusive. We can legalize prostitution and crack down on human trafficing. Its not a either or proposition.

And as I've said before, the fact that an industry is linked to an illegal practice isn't sufficient casue to ban that industry. Landscaping, agriculture, and food service among other industries are linked to illegal immigration. Should we ban these industries as part of the fight on illegal immigration? No. We should enforce the laws we have on the books about employing illegal immigrants along with the rest of our laws pertaining to illegal immigration.

I'm hoping you'll reply to this talloulou. I've enjoyed our debate and I'm curious what your response is.
 
So when you go to a brothel and the women come out and line up are you not picking out a woman? Are you not purchasing her time? As well as her body?
How is that different than any other service?

Are you under any obligation whatsoever to find out about her life, the voluntary nature of her sex work, or even her name?
I don't ask my waitress that crap either.

Are you under any obligation to do anything?
Yes. To not be an ass, not try and abuse her, and to pay for her services.

Are you not paying to use her flesh?
No, he'd be paying for a service, just like everyone else in the world pays for services rendered by fleshed humans every day.

Is she or isn't she under an obligation to allow herself (her body) to be selfishly used by you?
No, she is not under any obligation to do any such thing.
 
I have to ask if this is your primary concern, why did you not bring it up earlier. If I recall, you brought this issue up after several posts on the morality, lack of dignity, and stigma of prostitution. If this was your primary objection to legalized prostitution, I would've thought you would've brought it up first and not wasted our time with "would you want your daughter doing this?" and other such platitudes.

Moving on to human trafficing and prostitution, the two may be linked. I haven't read your links or checked out their authenticity, but I'll take your word for it, but they are not the same thing. Why can't we legalize prostitution and increase our enforcement efforts (with the now freed up manpower and funds from the former vice squads) to enforce laws on human trafficing? I don't see why they are mutually exclusive. We can legalize prostitution and crack down on human trafficing. Its not a either or proposition.

And as I've said before, the fact that an industry is linked to an illegal practice isn't sufficient casue to ban that industry. Landscaping, agriculture, and food service among other industries are linked to illegal immigration. Should we ban these industries as part of the fight on illegal immigration? No. We should enforce the laws we have on the books about employing illegal immigrants along with the rest of our laws pertaining to illegal immigration.

My biggest issue is that women have fought for the right to be taken seriously. For respect. For dignity and honor. Women fought their way out of a virtual slavery. Men don't own us, anymore. It disgusts me that women would sell themselves. No woman should aim to be a whore. The link between prostitution and human trafficking just adds fuel to my overall disgust. It bothers me immensely that there are men out there that would rather pay a whore to treat her like a disposable being than relate to a real woman. It pisses me off that there are women out there that will cater to this male need to "buy a woman." I view them, seriously, as traitors of a sort. In my mind the woman who will prostitute herself to a man is as disturbing as the woman who will put a burka on for a man.

I know you have those occasional hookers who like to talk about the 1000's of $$$ they made whoring themselves out. How in control they were. Usually it's all in past tense because despite how positively lucrative it was they quit for some reason. :roll:The common whore doesn't make tons of money. She usually makes pretty crappy money. In most cases she doesn't keep or control a huge portion of the funds the man paid to bed her. They usually have a host of psychological issues and low self esteem. They do best when marketed like cattle, in lots.

When sex is a commodity and marketed as a tourist attraction it's likely there are not enough willing whores within the native population of women to support the industry.

From every angle it's just immoral. There are countless children turned prostitutes. I just literally have zero respect for prostitution. I pity the women and hope they can get out and move on to something better. I despise the customers.

There's really not anything deeper than that in regards to my opinion. I find the whole business horribly immoral, uncivil, backwards, and tragic. It cannot feel good to let a man use you. Even if he pays you. The whole thing also reminds me just how pervy men can be, how insensitive, uncaring, etc. There's nothing about any of it that I find remotely appealing.

This whole idea of the new proud whore is just mind boggling.
 
How is that different than any other service?


I don't ask my waitress that crap either.


Yes. To not be an ass, not try and abuse her, and to pay for her services.


No, he'd be paying for a service, just like everyone else in the world pays for services rendered by fleshed humans every day.


No, she is not under any obligation to do any such thing.

Whoring yourself out is a tard way to make money.
 
Men go where they think they can buy sex. Vegas is sin city and prostitution is legal in places in Nevada. This creates a larger market in "vegas" than in other cities. You have more men in Vegas wanting to pay for sex then you might find in Dublin, Ohio. It's cause and demand relationship. Same with Amsterdam. Same with Australia. Same with anywhere men can go with an expectation that they will be able to buy sex. Eventually you have more men with money than women and you need to start importing, exploiting, and do whatever you can to keep business booming. You may not like that this relationship exists but it does.

Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas. Something else there is causing the human trafficking.

Maybe its the fact that prostitution is illegal that is causing it.
 
My biggest issue is that women have fought for the right to be taken seriously. For respect. For dignity and honor. Women fought their way out of a virtual slavery. Men don't own us, anymore. It disgusts me that women would sell themselves. No woman should aim to be a whore. The link between prostitution and human trafficking just adds fuel to my overall disgust. It bothers me immensely that there are men out there that would rather pay a whore to treat her like a disposable being than relate to a real woman. It pisses me off that there are women out there that will cater to this male need to "buy a woman." I view them, seriously, as traitors of a sort. In my mind the woman who will prostitute herself to a man is as disturbing as the woman who will put a burka on for a man.

I've generally agreed with most of your posts in this thread... but this one is a little bit over the top in my opinion. I'm not sure why. I suppose the level of anger expressed here doesn't add up to me.

I've never 'bought a woman.' But I've 'hired the services' of men before. Either by stuffing dollar bills in their socks as they pole danced, or by paying a little more for 'back room activities' or even for them to visit my home for private sessions.

I never viewed them as disposable. In fact, I think many guys who hire sex workers kind of feel sympathy for them. Not all, but many. I know I did. I really did care about them as human beings. That's why we give them big tips. :cool:

So I don't oppose prostitution because I think the participants are evil. And I don't oppose it with a heavy hand. I think it should be discouraged. How's that?

;)
 
My biggest issue is that women have fought for the right to be taken seriously. For respect. For dignity and honor. Women fought their way out of a virtual slavery. Men don't own us, anymore. It disgusts me that women would sell themselves. No woman should aim to be a whore. The link between prostitution and human trafficking just adds fuel to my overall disgust. It bothers me immensely that there are men out there that would rather pay a whore to treat her like a disposable being than relate to a real woman. It pisses me off that there are women out there that will cater to this male need to "buy a woman." I view them, seriously, as traitors of a sort. In my mind the woman who will prostitute herself to a man is as disturbing as the woman who will put a burka on for a man.
Men no more "buy a woman" when they purchase the services of a prostitute than they do when they purchase the services of anyone else. Your incorrect notion that they do is the disturbing one.

But in a way I agree with the notion, only about waitresses. It is truly sad that women degrade themselves in such a worthless service industry that caters to the lazy, ****ed up, pathetic scum who can't even cook their own goddamn food. I mean, women fought for so long to be taken seriously, and then here are these looser women degrading themselves by actually SERVING people like common houseslaves. There's no dignity or honor in being a slave like that... selling themselves for piddly crap wages... being forced to smile and be cheery even at the most asshole customers. No woman should aim to be someone's serving wench/slave. It's disgusting that women would sell their flesh in such a way.

I know you have those occasional hookers who like to talk about the 1000's of $$$ they made whoring themselves out. How in control they were. Usually it's all in past tense because despite how positively lucrative it was they quit for some reason. :roll:
I quit waitressing for some reason too. :roll: Quit river guiding. Quit being a professional photographer. Quit ski patrol. Quit driving an ambulance. And quit management at Sony. All for "some reason" :roll: Astonishingly, I actually made thousands of dollars at those jobs, and was in control. I guess I must have quit because I am actually not being truthful about making money in those jobs and being in control, eh? I guess the fact that I quit a job MUST mean that I was beaten, raped, and didn't make any money.

Gimme a break. Prostitutes are not victims, as much as you'd like them to be.

The common whore doesn't make tons of money. She usually makes pretty crappy money. In most cases she doesn't keep or control a huge portion of the funds the man paid to bed her. They usually have a host of psychological issues and low self esteem. They do best when marketed like cattle, in lots.
And you know this... how? You know prostitutes? Talk to any personally? Or you just read silly, misguided websites that tell you what you want to hear about the minority of prostitutes who happen to be streetwalkers?

When sex is a commodity and marketed as a tourist attraction it's likely there are not enough willing whores within the native population of women to support the industry.
Kinda like illegal immigration and forced slave labor amongst that population too, eh? I wonder what we could do about that. Oh, I know!! Keep it illegal.

From every angle it's just immoral. There are countless children turned prostitutes.
And that is illegal, and wrong. No one is arguing it isn't. But that isn't what we're talking about.

I just literally have zero respect for prostitution. I pity the women and hope they can get out and move on to something better. I despise the customers.
I pity waitresses for the same reasons.

There's really not anything deeper than that in regards to my opinion. I find the whole business horribly immoral, uncivil, backwards, and tragic. It cannot feel good to let a man use you. Even if he pays you. The whole thing also reminds me just how pervy men can be, how insensitive, uncaring, etc. There's nothing about any of it that I find remotely appealing.
I know! They were SOOOOO insensitive when they handed me wads of cash and wined and dined me. Damn those perverts! Damn them to hell!

You are correct in that it doesn't feel good to let a person use you. Which is why I never have let anyone use me. I've always worked for a living. And when I have sex, I never consider myself used. In fact, often it's the other way around. After all, if I'm getting paid.. I just used them to make money. If I'm not getting paid, then I just used them to get off. And sometimes.. it was both.

This whole idea of the new proud whore is just mind boggling.
The whole idea of a proud serving wench is mind boggling too. To each their own I guess. /shrug
 
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here's an interesting article:

The Netherlands formally adopted the legalization model in 2000, and there were modest public health benefits for the licensed prostitutes. But legalization nurtured a large sex industry and criminal gangs that trafficked underage girls, and so trafficking, violence and child prostitution flourished rather than dying out.

As a result, the Netherlands is now backtracking on its legalization model by closing some brothels, and other countries, like Bulgaria, are backing away from that approach.

In contrast, Sweden experimented in 1999 with a radically different approach that many now regard as much more successful: it decriminalized the sale of sex but made it a crime to buy sex. In effect, the policy was to arrest customers, but not the prostitutes.

Some Swedish prostitutes have complained that the policy reduced demand and thus lowered prices, while forcing sex work underground. But the evidence is strong that the new approach reduced trafficking in Sweden, and opinion polls show that Swedes regard the experiment as a considerable success. And the bottom line is that if you want to rape a 13-year-old girl imported from Eastern Europe, you’ll have a much easier time in Amsterdam than in Stockholm.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

I fully support cracking down on the demand side of the equation.
 
My biggest issue is that women have fought for the right to be taken seriously. For respect. For dignity and honor. Women fought their way out of a virtual slavery. Men don't own us, anymore. It disgusts me that women would sell themselves. No woman should aim to be a whore. The link between prostitution and human trafficking just adds fuel to my overall disgust. It bothers me immensely that there are men out there that would rather pay a whore to treat her like a disposable being than relate to a real woman. It pisses me off that there are women out there that will cater to this male need to "buy a woman." I view them, seriously, as traitors of a sort. In my mind the woman who will prostitute herself to a man is as disturbing as the woman who will put a burka on for a man.

Just like the woman who puts the burka on for whatever reason, the prostitute chooses to enter her profession. You can say its due to desperation or emotional scars or whatever and you may be right, but its still a choice. You may not like the choices they make, you may find them to be reprehensible, but they have no affect on you so I don't see how you or society should have any say in the matter. This applies the burka wearing woman and the prostitute. Afterall, I assume you're not advocating we ban burkas.

I know you have those occasional hookers who like to talk about the 1000's of $$$ they made whoring themselves out. How in control they were. Usually it's all in past tense because despite how positively lucrative it was they quit for some reason. :roll:The common whore doesn't make tons of money. She usually makes pretty crappy money. In most cases she doesn't keep or control a huge portion of the funds the man paid to bed her.

In an unregulated industry where a pimp is able to use violence to extort the prostitutes of course this happens. Independent contractors do far better and would probably be more prominent in a legalized situation.

When sex is a commodity and marketed as a tourist attraction it's likely there are not enough willing whores within the native population of women to support the industry.

Perhaps, and if that leads to an increase in human trafficing then we should step up our efforts to combat human trafficing. That doesn't justify abolishing a transaction between two consenting adults.

From every angle it's just immoral. There are countless children turned prostitutes. I just literally have zero respect for prostitution. I pity the women and hope they can get out and move on to something better. I despise the customers.

There's really not anything deeper than that in regards to my opinion. I find the whole business horribly immoral, uncivil, backwards, and tragic. It cannot feel good to let a man use you. Even if he pays you. The whole thing also reminds me just how pervy men can be, how insensitive, uncaring, etc. There's nothing about any of it that I find remotely appealing.

This whole idea of the new proud whore is just mind boggling.

You don't like it. That's clear and understandable, but its not sufficient justification to make it illegal. I don't like neo Nazis, communists, or reality TV, but I don't think we should ban them.
 
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Well, I personally would rather see my daughter happy, and if that makes them happy so be it. It's none of my business. If they are an adult then I see no reason why they can't do what they choose. Then again, I don't have the same stigma that many people here seem to have against prostitution.

I would be sick with grief if my kid did this or pornography for a living. I had a relative who did some porno and when you even mention it it gets a really creepy feeling amongst all of us who knew this person. It's embarrassing to know he did this. It's embarrassing, but it's almost like a slap in the face to all of us in the family. It just hurts a whole lotta people when you do this for a living. It hurts everybody who knows and loves you. Pretty sickening to do this to yourself, but also to others. I've watched shows where people in the porn industry try to date regular people, and as soon as anybody finds out this is what you do, it's, "oh, well, nice knowing ya. Toodles!" Sooooo if there's really nothing wrong with it then why does everybody react to it in this manner? Some might say it's because we're pre-conditioned to feel this way, but I think it just goes back to the beginnings of time, so it's gonna be hard to erace that from the heritage pool. It's like, "What did Grandma do for a living? She was a prostitute. Oh, that's interesting. See ya!"
 
I would be sick with grief if my kid did this or pornography for a living. I had a relative who did some porno and when you even mention it it gets a really creepy feeling amongst all of us who knew this person. It's embarrassing to know he did this. It's embarrassing, but it's almost like a slap in the face to all of us in the family. It just hurts a whole lotta people when you do this for a living. It hurts everybody who knows and loves you. Pretty sickening to do this to yourself, but also to others. I've watched shows where people in the porn industry try to date regular people, and as soon as anybody finds out this is what you do, it's, "oh, well, nice knowing ya. Toodles!" Sooooo if there's really nothing wrong with it then why does everybody react to it in this manner? Some might say it's because we're pre-conditioned to feel this way, but I think it just goes back to the beginnings of time, so it's gonna be hard to erace that from the heritage pool. It's like, "What did Grandma do for a living? She was a prostitute. Oh, that's interesting. See ya!"

It's disgusting to you, however, I have known someone that did porn and is absoultely proud of what she has done.

She has made more money in a year than some do in 50. She has since quit and is raising her children along with a loving husband.

The fact you and others find it a 'bad choice" is funny. Tell me do you bitch about a lawyer defending KNOWN criminals for money? Do you bitch about ambulance chasers? I doubt it.

The fact America has a taboo against sex is funny when it embraces violent video games and hockey fights. Violence is ok but sex isn't go figure.
 
Men no more "buy a woman" when they purchase the services of a prostitute than they do when they purchase the services of anyone else. Your incorrect notion that they do is the disturbing one.
Are you denying that women are commonly lined up and the man picks the one he wants?

Gimme a break. Prostitutes are not victims, as much as you'd like them to be.
How bout you give me a break and take a look at some factual statistics on prostitution and how well women are treated in that industry?


And you know this... how? You know prostitutes? Talk to any personally? Or you just read silly, misguided websites that tell you what you want to hear about the minority of prostitutes who happen to be streetwalkers?
I mostly ignore women on the internet whose claim to fame is that once upon a time they were a fabulous call girl, rolling in the dough, and they loved it in favor of actual news articles, books, congressional meetings, government action reports, etc.


Instead of rambling on why don't you tackle the issue that Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Germany, etc are having? The supply and demand issue that crops up when prostitution is legal, out in the open, celebrated, and put on tourism posters? Or is it just not your problem that legalization increases demand, which increases the likelihood of desperate women being imported to various regions as sex slaves? It's not a made up issue. Also when prostitution is legal, open, and celebrated the demand for younger girls increases which is why human trafficking commonly involves minors. That's not a made up issue either.

If you want to instead insist on comparing being a waitress with selling your sex then there's little point in having a conversation with you.
 
Are you denying that women are commonly lined up and the man picks the one he wants?
In a brothel, I'm sure they are.

They do the same with Ski Instructors.

So, your point is... what, exactly? They still are not "buying a woman" any more than someone is "buying a man" when they pick a male instructor out of a lineup.

How bout you give me a break and take a look at some factual statistics on prostitution and how well women are treated in that industry?
They aren't "factual statistics". They're estimates taken from the minority segment of the prostitution trade. I know my facts firsthand.

I mostly ignore women on the internet whose claim to fame is that once upon a time they were a fabulous call girl, rolling in the dough, and they loved it in favor of actual news articles, books, congressional meetings, government action reports, etc.
Claim to fame? Who the **** said anything about fame? What ARE you talking about?

Instead of rambling on why don't you tackle the issue that Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Germany, etc are having? The supply and demand issue that crops up when prostitution is legal, out in the open, celebrated, and put on tourism posters? Or is it just not your problem that legalization increases demand, which increases the likelihood of desperate women being imported to various regions as sex slaves? It's not a made up issue. Also when prostitution is legal, open, and celebrated the demand for younger girls increases which is why human trafficking commonly involves minors. That's not a made up issue either.
And so you deal with that issue, just as you deal with the black market trade of any service or good.

If you want to instead insist on comparing being a waitress with selling your sex then there's little point in having a conversation with you.
Selling "my sex"? LOL No, it's selling the service of having sex. But you are correct in that I fail to see what the distinction is between selling that service and selliing any other. And, you've yet to explain what the distinction is either. You and anyone else.

When you're able to explain the distinction between selling one service and another (between two consenting adults) maybe then you could continue?
 
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Just like the woman who puts the burka on for whatever reason, the prostitute chooses to enter her profession. You can say its due to desperation or emotional scars or whatever and you may be right, but its still a choice.[

Except again she doesn't always. There are many many countries dealing with human trafficking for sex slaves. This idea that you can go to Amsterdam and pay a prostitute who voluntarily prostitutes herself isn't always true. You as the customer, won't know if she's voluntarily doing it or not.

You may not like the choices they make, you may find them to be reprehensible, but they have no affect on you so I don't see how you or society should have any say in the matter. This applies the burka wearing woman and the prostitute. Afterall, I assume you're not advocating we ban burkas.
I consider any exploitation of women a womens rights issue.

In an unregulated industry where a pimp is able to use violence to extort the prostitutes of course this happens. Independent contractors do far better and would probably be more prominent in a legalized situation.

No actually whores who are independent contractors fair far better when prostitution is illegal. The "supply" is lower and not as accessible so men pay more. When made legal women are usually housed up together in lots, paid less, and forced to work in brothel type settings. Why go seek out some independent whore who works on her own when you can go pick out a woman from a group of 15 women? Or visit a street that has numerous brothels each with large lots of women in them? The folks who make out the best in those scenarios are the brothel owners. The women are forced into a more competitive atmosphere, the expectation for younger women is higher, and the women make way less money.



Perhaps, and if that leads to an increase in human trafficing then we should step up our efforts to combat human trafficing. That doesn't justify abolishing a transaction between two consenting adults.
Sex should not be a "transaction." Intimacy is not business.



Y
 
They aren't "factual statistics". They're estimates taken from the minority segment of the prostitution trade. I know my facts firsthand.

I don't think you do because the fabulous call gal lifestyle which you love to brag about- where half decent women make oodles of money with each transaction- is essentially over when prostitution becomes legal.
 
I don't think you do because the fabulous call gal lifestyle which you love to brag about- where half decent women make oodles of money with each transaction- is essentially over when prostitution becomes legal.

I've never denied that for a second. Prices drop when something is easier to obtain. Simply supply and demand.

And?

Oh, and it's not "bragging", it's simply stating facts. Do you consider it "bragging" when I talk about any other job I've had? :roll:
 
I've never denied that for a second. Prices drop when something is easier to obtain. Simply supply and demand.

And?

Oh, and it's not "bragging", it's simply stating facts. Do you consider it "bragging" when I talk about any other job I've had? :roll:

Well the issue of this thread is legalizing prostitution. Legalizing it promotes a higher demand, cheapens the worth/value, and creates a fiercely more competitive market. When men have more choice they demand youth.

We are talking about legalizing prostitution so I fail to see why you keep bringing up elite call girls which will have no place in a legalized setting. In a place like Ohio maybe some girl who isn't even all that good looking can get a few hundred off a guy as an independent contractor. Put that same girl in Amsterdam and she won't make enough to even live off. In legalized settings the girls are kept in lots, paid less, treated worse, and well who wants that lifestyle? Very few but the most desperate. Thus the trafficking.

So if you understand that, know that, why keep bringing up the moot issue of the fantastic call girl life???? :confused:
 
They aren't "factual statistics". They're estimates taken from the minority segment of the prostitution trade. I know my facts firsthand.

I've already shown her how legality does not matter in the human sex trade. She does not care about the reality at hand. As long as "morality" is enforced via the state everything is fine and dandy in her opinion.
 
Men no more "buy a woman" when they purchase the services of a prostitute than they do when they purchase the services of anyone else. Your incorrect notion that they do is the disturbing one.

Maybe that's how you feel, but ask the rest of the world, and that's not the story you'll get.

But in a way I agree with the notion, only about waitresses. It is truly sad that women degrade themselves in such a worthless service industry that caters to the lazy, ****ed up, pathetic scum who can't even cook their own goddamn food. I mean, women fought for so long to be taken seriously, and then here are these looser women degrading themselves by actually SERVING people like common houseslaves. There's no dignity or honor in being a slave like that... selling themselves for piddly crap wages... being forced to smile and be cheery even at the most asshole customers. No woman should aim to be someone's serving wench/slave. It's disgusting that women would sell their flesh in such a way.

Waitressing is not having sex for money. Two different things. There is a service involved, but the services are quite different.

I quit waitressing for some reason too. :roll: Quit river guiding. Quit being a professional photographer. Quit ski patrol. Quit driving an ambulance. And quit management at Sony. All for "some reason" :roll: Astonishingly, I actually made thousands of dollars at those jobs, and was in control. I guess I must have quit because I am actually not being truthful about making money in those jobs and being in control, eh? I guess the fact that I quit a job MUST mean that I was beaten, raped, and didn't make any money.

All the other jobs you could readily admit to, but bring up prostitution, and I would bet everybody clams up.

Gimme a break. Prostitutes are not victims, as much as you'd like them to be.

I've never heard anybody say that's what they want to do when they grow up.

Kinda like illegal immigration and forced slave labor amongst that population too, eh? I wonder what we could do about that. Oh, I know!! Keep it illegal.

Prostitution is very low-class. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, it's still low-class. It can have a beautiful package, and even be educated, but in the end it is what it is and it ain't good or necessary.

And that is illegal, and wrong. No one is arguing it isn't. But that isn't what we're talking about.

The thinking is the same just different age groups.

I pity waitresses for the same reasons.

Anyone who works can be pitied. It's tough getting up doing 9 to 5.

I know! They were SOOOOO insensitive when they handed me wads of cash and wined and dined me. Damn those perverts! Damn them to hell!

Yes, they were.

You are correct in that it doesn't feel good to let a person use you. Which is why I never have let anyone use me. I've always worked for a living. And when I have sex, I never consider myself used. In fact, often it's the other way around. After all, if I'm getting paid.. I just used them to make money. If I'm not getting paid, then I just used them to get off.

This is probably how you have come to justify what you do.

The whole idea of a proud serving wench is mind boggling too. To each their own I guess. /shrug

Waitresses serve food and drinks. It's entirely different to have someone who you don't even know, enjoy something that is your own personal, highly cherished self for a few dollars. Not worth it in MHO. Unfortunate when you believe it is worth it.
 
Well the issue of this thread is legalizing prostitution. Legalizing it promotes a higher demand,

Prove it. The demand is already there legal or not. I doubt the demand will change very much.
 
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