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Thread: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

  1. #371
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Again, you are not selling your penis or your vagina or your hand if you are a prostitute. Not any more than you are selling body parts if you use them to work in any other profession.
    I think we get what you are saying, and we don't agree. That's the difference, we see it more literally, and you see it more figuratively.

    And prostitution is only degrading to someone if THEY think it is. What is degrading is subjective. Personally, I find waitressing to be one of the most degrading jobs I've ever performed. THAT was FAR more degrading than prostitution could ever dream of being. Regardless, if someone wants to engage in a profession that someone else happens to find degrading (like waitressing), then who has the right to tell them they can't? No one. And, just because someone feels that a profession is degrading is no reason to keep or make it illegal.
    So, whether or not you or anyone else finds the profession degrading is quite irrelevant.
    If the majority of people in this country feel it should remain illegal then it's gonna stay illegal, if not it won't.

    There are waitresses that love the work, and make good tips at it. It's a service job.
    It's true that some may be able to disassociate the act from degradation and this would be best for them if they really hate it. You can look at many, many jobs as degrading, so it's kinda whatever you want to pick.

    But see, that's the thing... It's never free. For anyone. If you don't go to a pro, then you have to find someone and convince them to have sex with you. Spend money and time on them. It's never free.
    Now you're talking semantics, and noone will ever win with your connotation of free.

    It's just that some people (prostitutes and their clients) are the ones that are honest about that fact.
    Not if the spouse or girlfriend finds out. Not sure what the response was to here and don't want to go back to look.

    It already is just like any other job. Some people just like to keep their head in the sand.
    We've explained what our definition of it is, and how it differes. I'd say most of the guys here will readily admit that if their wives or GF's found out they went to a prostitute that would essentially end the relationship, so I don't get where it's the same as being a waitress, but ok, and even when it's legal I'm thinking most Significant Other's won't say it's the same as any other harmless relationship. Course I realize this would happen with any form of cheating, but that penis or vagina is going to be the cause for a lot of hurt for being so innocent.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  2. #372
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    Talloullou, you haven't responded to this comparison and told me how the prostitution/trafficing link is different than the cheap labor/illegal immigration link and why it warrants such draconian measures.
    This is where draconian is actually smarter than we smart people are. They knew prostituion was a bad thing and they didn't need to have a million reasons why, they just knew. The generations before us all knew this. They knew prostitution probably has it's place, but you start to give it an air of respectability and then society starts to think just about anything and everything is respectable, then you have no rules, and you can just pull all the bricks out cause nobody will care about anything, so all the other "little" sins t'aint nothing t'all.

    Prostitution just ain't right and that's really are thar is to it. For the biggest part of it, it's already legal with pornography, why do ya'll want to go and get greedy with it.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  3. #373
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    I think we get what you are saying, and we don't agree. That's the difference, we see it more literally, and you see it more figuratively.
    Obviously you don't agree, but it has nothing to do with literal and figurative. Your position is based in emotion and mine is based on logic. I can specifically state how and why prostitution should be legal in a logical and consistent fashion. I can draw logical and consistent parallels. What you and others do for your position is just say "No it's different", but give no logical reason WHY prostitution is different than any other job with regard to "selling oneself".


    If the majority of people in this country feel it should remain illegal then it's gonna stay illegal, if not it won't.
    Incorrect. Many things have been decriminalized or criminalized against the majority opinion.

    There are waitresses that love the work, and make good tips at it. It's a service job.
    It's true that some may be able to disassociate the act from degradation and this would be best for them if they really hate it. You can look at many, many jobs as degrading, so it's kinda whatever you want to pick.
    Indeed it is "whatever you want to pick" which makes the "it's degrading" argument against legal prostitution pretty moot. That was my entire point and I'm glad you agree.

    Now you're talking semantics, and noone will ever win with your connotation of free.
    Yes yes I know. If you buy a girl drinks in a bar, or take her to dinner or buy her gifts, or pay for her apartment... that's so different than just handing her cash.

    Not if the spouse or girlfriend finds out. Not sure what the response was to here and don't want to go back to look.
    Has nothing to do with any spouse or girlfriend (if they exist). Has everything to do with a guy being honest about what he wants, and a woman being honest about what he has to do to get it.

    We've explained what our definition of it is, and how it differes. I'd say most of the guys here will readily admit that if their wives or GF's found out they went to a prostitute that would essentially end the relationship, so I don't get where it's the same as being a waitress, but ok, and even when it's legal I'm thinking most Significant Other's won't say it's the same as any other harmless relationship. Course I realize this would happen with any form of cheating, but that penis or vagina is going to be the cause for a lot of hurt for being so innocent.
    This is irrelevant to the discussion.

  4. #374
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Obviously you don't agree, but it has nothing to do with literal and figurative. Your position is based in emotion and mine is based on logic. I can specifically state how and why prostitution should be legal in a logical and consistent fashion. I can draw logical and consistent parallels. What you and others do for your position is just say "No it's different", but give no logical reason WHY prostitution is different than any other job with regard to "selling oneself".
    Yours is circular logic to my way of thinking. You keep repeating the waitress comparison to prostition, over and over, but when we say they are different, you say no, they are the same thing. You say the waitress is selling her feet, or her hands to accomodate a service for food or drinks. Firstly, food and drinks are a necessity for life. You gotta have them to survive. Sex is a take it or leave it thing. Nobody on earth has to have sex with another human to survive. Sex has a lot of operatives that go on with it. Some people have to feel emotion with it, some don't. Some want a commitment, some don't. Some eventually want a kid because of it, some don't. The kid issue is the huge issue, and this cannot be denied. Sex causes kids. This is the actual purpose for sex. You can deny this, but it's biological that the reasons humans are made up the way they are is to attract the opposite sex to have sex and then make a baby. As long as sex is necessary for making children prostitution is going to be ostracized. This is also what makes it sacred. It's had a sacredness since the beginnings of time. You can have fun with it, but the fun is so you'll make a baby.

    Incorrect. Many things have been decriminalized or criminalized against the majority opinion.
    This is true, but prostitution has been legal in Neveda a long time and it's not overun with legal prostitutes, and even has illegal ones. I was saying all prostitutes would be flocking to Neveda for the "trade" and they haven't. It's not that lucrative for most, so why bother with the hassle, plus it's messy and awkward. yikk!

    Indeed it is "whatever you want to pick" which makes the "it's degrading" argument against legal prostitution pretty moot. That was my entire point and I'm glad you agree.
    I still think it's a degrading profession for women because they are the one's being penetrated. Women are being dominated when they are being penetrated. I don't see how anyone can see it any differently. It's how men and women are made. Yes, they can also give blow-jobs, but here again, whose mouth is being penetrated?

    Yes yes I know. If you buy a girl drinks in a bar, or take her to dinner or buy her gifts, or pay for her apartment... that's so different than just handing her cash.
    Buying someone a drink to socialize and get to know them is not buying them something to get sex with, it's a social gesture of attraction, and the woman or man can reject it if they don't want it.

    Has nothing to do with any spouse or girlfriend (if they exist). Has everything to do with a guy being honest about what he wants, and a woman being honest about what he has to do to get it.
    People tend to be dishonest in most situations, so I'm not big on the honesty argument. Guys always want sex and women know this. It's how men are. It's not rocket science. First things Mom ever told you is, "they just want to get into your pants", or "keep it zipped up and in your pants".

    This is irrelevant to the discussion.
    That didn't need to be pointed out, and obviously I thought it was relevant, I took the time to type it.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

  5. #375
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    This is where draconian is actually smarter than we smart people are. They knew prostituion was a bad thing and they didn't need to have a million reasons why, they just knew. The generations before us all knew this.
    So we don't need reasons for our laws now? Just some sort of intuitive "knowing". I always though when we pass a law restricting the liberty of individuals we should have ... I dunno, maybe a reason and probably a pretty good one.

    They knew prostitution probably has it's place, but you start to give it an air of respectability and then society starts to think just about anything and everything is respectable, then you have no rules, and you can just pull all the bricks out cause nobody will care about anything, so all the other "little" sins t'aint nothing t'all.
    What's this? The classic slippery slope argument? Legalizing prostitution will lead to the breakdown of society? Strange that all those countries that have legalized it seem to have avoided that breakdown.

    Prostitution just ain't right and that's really are thar is to it. For the biggest part of it, it's already legal with pornography, why do ya'll want to go and get greedy with it.
    I agree there isn't much, if any, difference from prostitution and porn actors. So why aren't you moral majority advocates arguing against that? Its not a matter of being greedy, but asking for at least some consistency. The hypocricy of legalizing porn but not prostitution is astounding. They both involve sex for money, objectifying women, and all the moral reasons you guys are arguing are valid reasons for banning prostitution.
    Last edited by Psychoclown; 03-21-09 at 04:11 PM.
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  6. #376
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    This is where draconian is actually smarter than we smart people are. They knew prostituion was a bad thing and they didn't need to have a million reasons why, they just knew. The generations before us all knew this.
    So we don't need reasons for our laws now? Just some sort of intuitive "knowing". I always though when we pass a law restricting the liberty of individuals we should have ... I dunno, maybe a reason and probably a pretty good one.

    What's this? The classic slippery slope argument? Legalizing prostitution will lead to the breakdown of society? Strange that all those countries that have legalized it seem to have avoided that breakdown.

    I agree there isn't much, if any, difference from prostitution and porn actors. So why aren't you moral majority advocates arguing against that? Its not a matter of being greedy, but asking for at least some consistency. The hypocricy of legalizing porn but not prostitution is astounding. They both involve sex for money, objectifying women, and all the moral reasons you guys are arguing are valid reasons for banning prostitution.
    This is the biggest pile of bull**** I've read since rivrrat’s last post, and that's sayin somethin.

    Do yourself a favor and bother to learn even the most trivial fact before embarrassing yourself on this thread again.

  7. #377
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    This is the biggest pile of bull**** I've read since rivrrat’s last post, and that's sayin somethin.

    Do yourself a favor and bother to learn even the most trivial fact before embarrassing yourself on this thread again.
    I'd reply to your counterpoints, but you don't have any.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    I'd reply to your counterpoints, but you don't have any.
    I could burry you in data.

    You have nothing. NOTHING

  9. #379
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Bring it on! Anything would be better than personal attacks without any point or counterpoint to debate. You've been in this thread since the the start and I don't recall any of your posts sharing this data.
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    Bring it on! Anything would be better than personal attacks without any point or counterpoint to debate. You've been in this thread since the the start and I don't recall any of your posts sharing this data.
    Play catch-up:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/true-d...s-rivrrat.html

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